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October 28, 2008

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the amazing thing is they are not really playing well except Henrik and Dubi(most of the time).

they can improve a lot... Gomez is also playing well and dominating the puck.

Dubi-

You are absolutely right. Each year the officiating has gotten substantially worse since the lockout. Something has to give here. Where is the accountability? How could the barrage of crosschecks Streit unleashed on Naslund go unnoticed? Absolutely atrocious.

gotta love Dru.

Sutter-Weight situation.What you should have is an onus (penalty) on the one who hits the head (as here ) with an exception if the injured player bends down and causes the injury and impact (as here).

My thoughts exactly re: Sutter. He nearly decapitated Cherepanov (RIP) with a forearm to the throat.

Regarding Dougie Weight: what a great career that guy has had. Seems like a real class act, to boot. He'll get his 1,000 pt this season. Who would've guessed all those years ago?

Renney did the right thing with Dubi. Jess makes the point...why didn't Renney show Jagr who was the boss. Well, that's a good question, but I think the answer is self-evident. Jagr couldn't learn from a benching, that simply. Now I know I'm going to get bashed for bashing JJ, but I'm not bashing him. I'm just saying that there is a big difference between a kid with 2 years in the NHL and a guy like Jagr with 15 or more years and a superstar. Same with Drury or Gomez, they don't get benched for stupid plays. Dubinsky is very unusual. This kid has so much potential for greatness. He is a player who can LEARN from a benching. For example, I'm not sure Zherdev can fully understand the idea of "benching". He gave away the puck and Hank pulled his cookies out of the fire. However, Zherdev FULLY UNDERSTOOD his mistake. I'm not so sure Dubi understood what was going on. Both calls were weak, IMO. But, this is the Islanders, can't give them an inch. Buy Dubi's own admission, he was not playing his best in the first period. This kid could end up being something very special. He has "captain" written all over him. He skill set has no limit yet. He demands a complete effeort from himself at all times and is beginning to expect the same from his linemates. I think Renney picked the right time, the right players to reinforce the right standards for NY Rangers players. I think everybody got the message.

I don't feel all that bad for Sutter, if for no other reason than for what he did to Cherepanov

I think Renney picked the right time, the right players to reinforce the right standards for NY Rangers players. I think everybody got the message.

Sorry RB but I am going to disagree with you here because Renney should have benched Zherdev for his gaffe (Zheredev clearly knew it too), Gomez for his lazy turnovers or any other player's gaffes (Hello Kalanin) to show the team that the rules are applied equally.

That is where we are going to disagree here because the rules are not nor have they ever been applied with just one standard under Renney.

My number one complaint starts with Renney's remarks about who is the boss. Sorry but it does not take much to call out a second year player in public.

You want to be the boss then you demand one set of standards from your entire roster and that has never happened under Renney and odds are never will.

Zherdev knew what he did was wrong and would have understood why he was sitting.

When we see the entire team come out with piss poor efforts then why has Renney never sent a message to the team by sitting one of the leaders?

Do that and show that all players are equally accountable

Dubi,

Is that a fish sticks reference in the title?

Well done.

Jess

"That is where we are going to disagree here because the rules are not nor have they ever been applied with just one standard under Renney."

Yes they have. He has always given to veterans a pass and the youngster the bench. I know you don't think that is fair, but who ever said fairness should rule. He didn't bench Zherdev BECAUSE he understood the STUPID thing that he did. Sitting him in the corner with a dunce cap on would not get Z to understand BETTER what he did. Same with Gomez or Jagr or any other vet. Getting players to move from youth hockey to professional hockey needs to be done in their 1st thru 3rd years. When a young player starts making big mistakes and he is not giving his all, as Dubinsky admitted, then a quick lesson is accountability is necessary. Dubi fully understands what Renney did and, I'm sure is thankful upon reflection. That is the effect a coach is looking for when they take such drastic action. I dare say that would be lost on most veteran players. (Malik simply got to watch, that was Renney's solution to that problem) Not only that, Renney knows that this kid is something very special and is molding him into a true leader. Some call it "tough love", but good coaches know that they are challenging these young, potential superstars to bring out the very best the kid has to offer. Crosby has been pampered, so his childish pouting just continues. Dubinsky is being moulded into a man and if he continues his skill set improvements and matures under Renney's supervision, there is no telling what he can become.

So we can differ, but I'm right!

so no matter what the coach is right?

Well, let's see -- So far the coach has been right nine times, wrong two times, and kind of half and half once. The bottom line on Dubinsky -- what Brandon said. Plus the W.

Renney's approach to handling his players has seemed tailored to that specific player pretty much the whole time he has been coaching here. Like others wrote, he seems to understand that different players respond differently. Dubinsky is a stand up guy and I think he will respond in a positive way to the brief benching that he received last night. Zherdev is brand new to the team, still trying to adjust, and has shown in the past that his play can deteriorate if he feels isolated. And at the end of the day, it is the long term response that is most important.

But there is a method to the madness with Renney and this stuff. And on a 9-2-1 run, I do not think it would be smart for Renney to be benching people left and right just to make a point. That is egotistical. Renney puts his players and the team ahead of himself. Do not overlook the improtance of that. Bench Gomez... bench Naslund... bench Zherdev... bench Kalinin (and shorten your bench to 5 d-men in the process). You would not be 9-2-1, that's for sure. Your record would be worse and you would not have the positive energy that is running through the Rangers dressing room right now.

I do not think they played great last night. But I think he made the right point to the right player at the right time. I do not think Brandon would have been benched had he gotten called for boarding and roughing. But tripping and interference are not his game. Zherdev and Gomez are going to give away pucks no matter what. They're creative players. You do not want to stifle that by benching them.

Chris QCT

You must have coached at some point in your life. Very well said!

Chris QCT,

I complete agree with your assessment of Renney and the situation of the benching of Dubi. I think that Renney handles things with all his players differently because of their diverse personalities.

He's even said that when Henrik has had a bad game he normally doesn't even say anything to Henrik, instead he usually let's Henrik come to him or let's Benny Allaire handle it. So that's just an example.

Jess, I think your biggest issue with what happened were the words Renney chose to use when talking to the media about it. The "boss" comment didn't sit well with me either when I originally read it but after reading Dubi's response to it I quickly got over it. It seems that it's still stinging you and making you go all RWAR on Renney.

BTW the level of hate and discontent that the Hockey Rodent has for Naslund and the Rangers recent play is just a bit extreme imho

here is what I don't understand, we are winning!!! Renney is doing a good job why is everyone bitching and moaning?

zerdev reminds me of myself playing nhl09.. pretty good but prone to making a stupid turnover trying to be fancy... either way couldn't be happier a superstar for tyutin and dead weight backman??? steal of the offseason

can we admit that although they didn't score because hank is a god, we should model our pp off of what the islanders did... hard passes to make players move and hard shots to force the goalie to give up rebounds....pern still needs to be fired because 4yrs now and no difference with all different players means he's to blame cause its his power play

How could you bench Zherdev after he had just won the previous two games? I liked what Sam and Joe said: the kid did not want to go back to the bench! Give him a pass on the one dumb pass (and what a lulu it was: blind behind the back pass in front of your own goal!). If he does it again, then sure, bench him.

As for Dubinsky, he pulled two consecutive dumb penalties. He gets the message. We move on.

No benching vets? I think you've still got to lay down the law, but it is definitely a fine line. And every year is different. Still, a benching of Jagr last year was certainly appropriate at times, but I can't fault Renney for not benching him. What's that gonna do? Tick him off and set off a round of contentiousness?

And are athletes "different" today? Do we treat them differently from the past? What would Scotty Bowman do? Like I said, it is a tough call and I think Renney pulled it off by handling personalities with the pressure they warranted.

Matty

I did find the remark classless but I am also of the school where one standard applies to all. I see it in coaches at every level even today.

If you bench Dubi fine, but do not go further and pull the "I am the boss" remark via the media. There was no need for it.

Chris

So then it is OK to have 22 different rules for the Rangers based upon player status?

Sorry that just does not work for me.

You are also mistaking plays that are not due to being creative but by not thinking. There is a major difference as all three have been guilty of those kinds of turnovers.

RB

Yes we can disagree but sorry it is not a matter about who is right or wrong, it is about having equal standards on a team.

It is about accountability and that is an area where Tom Renney winds up as too soft on the players.

You can bench superstars as I have watched Hitchock bench Modanno and Zubov for example. Sometimes sitting a team leader for a shift is a very powerful message to a team about what the expectations are.

I disagree that "equal standards" are necessary or even appropriate in this situation.

This coach isn't some inflexible authority figure as some seem to long for. Instead, he adapts his approach to each player based on that player's needs and current state of development. I credit this style, which is respectful of the players, together with the leadership of the core, for the strong team chemistry we're seeing already. Folks, we're witnessing something special here, and all of the Renney haters are going to have to eat crow before it's over....

Jess,

But as Dubi(BB Dubi) pointed out the coach did bench Drury and Naslund earlier in the season for poor play in the third period ... I remember because I recall Sam and Joe commenting on those two players missing shifts as the coach was double shifting the Z/Dubi/Voros line at the time ... So he has done it ... my biggest gripe would be with his choice of words ...

BTW Everyone,

Have you all seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqzOtW4zpBc <<< or link HERE

Adam Mair of the Sabres was so enraged at Jarkko Ruutu that he went after him, AFTER the game, IN the visitors locker room ... he actually went there to confront him ... I don't think I have ever seen that before ...

Stuart,
We can improve a lot but there are definitely more than 2 or 3 players playing well.
Try about everyone but Drury, Naslund, and Dawes; and Dru and Naslund are coming around.

I am not one who has ever been worried about Drury. He does all the little things and has not been a disappointment, even if his numbers have been. He will be a good player this year, no doubt.

www.dailystache.net

So then it is OK to have 22 different rules for the Rangers based upon player status?


No, I do not think Renney bases anything on "status" at all. But I think he tailors it to the reaction he will get out of the player based on his judgement of that player's personality. If Renney feels Player A will react positively to a benching, he'll do it. But if he feels Player B would react negatively to the same benching, he handles it differently. I do not think there is anything wrong with that.

I do not think everything Renney does is always right. But I think his decisions last night were good.

@Matty,

I'm a bit shocked at Hockey Rodent's distaste for Naslund as well. I think the Rangers grossly overpaid for Naslund's 20-25 goals and 50ish points, but Rodent actually declared war on him!

I have to agree with Chris here. Jess, his point is you have to know your people and how to motivate them. Everyone is motivated differently and good coaches know what buttons to push with each player to get them going. It comes down to knowing the person. Having coached myself I know what player I can come down hard on and make an example of because I know that a) emotionally they can handle it and b) are leaders and know that coach may be picking on them to make a point to the rest of the team. While Jess certainly knows Dubinsky better than any of us having interviewed him many times, from what I can tell he is a responsible kid who knows right from wrong and knows when he is playing at his best. He is accountable to himself and his teammates (if he wasn't he wouldn't have cracked an NHL lineup at 21) and is mature enough to handle Renney's short benching. I think we are making a bigger deal out of this than need be.

i trust renney knows more about the makeup of dubinsky than any journalist, but i would only add that those penalties -- one in particular -- was complete bs. maybe renney was just waiting to light a fire under dubinsky, but those calls, especially one of them, should never have been called in the first place. i'd also say that taking zherdev off his line seemed unfair, as well. they were doing everything that was asked of them and generating tons of excitement. now dubinsky is in a funk and voros hasn't scored in a while.

Jess

I think you are a military man. I never was in the military, but I do understand a lot of military ways. Based on that, I agree that a single standard for performance is absolutly necessary. In command, you have lives on the line. One guy screws up and people die. That is what training is all about, getting people to do the same things every time so you will reduce the chances of loss of life. As you say, you can't have 22 different standards of performance, each has to rely on the others performance, just to get through the day. However, in sports you can take a different approach. Yes, one screw up and the team suffers, but nobody dies! It's just 2 points in an 82 game schedule. And this is where management comes in to the picture. In the military there is no management in the battle field; there is a dictatorial command. In battle there is no concern for somebody's feelings, all you are trying to do is keep your fellow soldiers alive. Management of a team of athletes, on the other hand, requires the inter-personal skills of an experience diplomat along with an X's and O's understanding of the game.

A Mike Keenen is a good example of the coach it seems you prefer. Those type of guys are successful, but usually don't last very long. Bowman may be an exception to that, but he also coached in a different era and had a "persona" already established, so everybody knew he was tough, fair and a proven winner. It's hard to start out that way.

I understand your point of view. I just think in todays sports world, with all the prima-donna's and swelled-heads that are around, the better approach is Renney's style verses the Keenen or Torterella (sp?) style.

Let me add this. I has happy to see what Mike Singletary did on Sunday. That kind of "dressing down" could be a good thing. He just can't do that every game, it will loose it's effectiveness.

im confused why everyone is hating on Naslund.

he's tied for 2nd on the team in points and is on pace for 21 goals and 47 assists and barring injury i expect those numbers to be more like 26 goals and 52 assists

I really don't see the issue with benching a second year player and not benching veteran players. Giving a young player like Dubinksi a few shifts off to think about his mistakes is par for the course. He might be great, but he's still a little green. Benching him is a learning experience. Benching a vet like Gomez or an older player like Zherdev seems more like shaming a player in front of his team. These guys are veteran professional athletes - coaches don't, and shouldn't, treat them like college kids or rookies.

Oleo, even your later projections would mean that Naslund performed worse than what was expected of him.

Since Renney & Co. are moving toward what was originally expected to be our first line of Gomez-Zherdev-Naslund, I'd like to have Drury & Dubi on the same line just to make sure that both are getting the quality ice time. Who's better in this case to be the other wing and what should be the 3rd line then?

why no thought given to putting korpo in for dawes on the gomez line?

This is probably Larry Brooks stirring the pot when no local teams played last night, but what does everyone make of the potential problems with the RFA's, in particular Dubinsky?

It's going to be really interesting seeing what Sather is going to do next off-season with all the RFA's. I for one am not crazy about the Redden or Rozival resignings(because of their cap hit, not their level of play) especially when the rangers have so many defensemen coming through the system i think signing one of them would have been enough. Combined i think they take up around $11 million a year. I think one of them will have to be moved and my guess is rozy.

It's off topic but since it was brought up: out here in San Francisco there's been some media speculation that what Singletary did was showboating -- a way to get his name into the national spotlight.

Also agree with the question of why Korpi doesn't get a shot in place of Dawes.

At this point the organization has to make a decision on Korpikoski. They either need to get him in the lineup or send him down to Hartford so he can play - and so the Rangers can get some salary cap relief.

I worry about Dubi and Zherdev becoming RFA's next summer but its in the back of my mind. I'm thinking that that Glen will have to trade someone to make it happen, which is why when they signed BOTH Redden and Roszival to the contracts they did I was very surprised since I knew that both Dubi and Z would need to be re-signed in the summer.

But they must of thought of all this before doing those things and I would think Sather will want to Re-sign them before the summer and after January so as to prevent other teams from forcing their hands

kovazub

70-80 points from Naslund is exactly what we were looking for when we signed him.

what exactly did you expect of Naslund??? he is past his prime


matty

the rangers are going to have cap problems in the future but that is what happens when you overpay for players. Drury and Gomez have a cap hit of a combined 14.507 million and compared to the other highest paid players Drury and Gomez are not in their league. Don't get me wrong here, I like both players and i'm happy with their play but both are vastly overpaid.

I fully expect, Dubinsky to be resigned and probably Zherdev too but Prucha and Dawes are inevitably going to have to be moved to accomodate them.

If the Rangers prospects develop well then Dawes and Prucha can be replaced internally and the cap becomes less of a problem

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