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February 21, 2008

Comments

Boyle is 32.. I do not get it. Liles is 27 and better.... The costs will be similar, I do not understand why Liles woud not be the guy????

Ruscinsky is a total waste, soft, old, nothing...

I sure hope the team has an easier time getting past what happened the other night than I and probably many of us are. It's just very, very hard to continue to believe that your team can still challenge for a good playoff spot and go deep into the spring when they blow a 5-0 lead this late in the season. I understand they got a point, but hiow can a team this fragile be expected to do any of the above things? Puts a real dent in my "this team can beat everyone" theory. It starts to beg the question - yes, but will they beat everyone?

Any particular or pertinent questions I should ask any of the boys at Casino night tonight? Aside from the mustache that is.

Boyle is awesome, BUT... he will want 6-6.5m at least, and rumors are he wants an 8 year deal... eight?! I'd rather give Liles a 4-5 year at 4-4.5 (assuming he'd re-sign)... or perhaps Hainsey... for the Rozsi replacement... then Jackman is a must.. we need a big hitter.. esp since guys like Phaneuf and Pronger will never be available...

Wow Pavel said it exactly right. Colorado probably asked for too much for Liles. I'm happy the Rangers don't want to give any top prospects away, so if We do happen to acquire Boyle it will be for 2nd tier prospects and draft picks. If I had the choice I would pick Boyle. He is way more dangerous of a player than Liles is. Another reason is Boyle is a quick transition guy, He gets the puck out something that this team has a hard time of doing.

Dubi you basically have it right. The NYR have the ability, but they haven't developed the consistency. The hope is they can duplicate last season's march to the playoffs. If Jagr & Lundqvist along with some others can consistently from here on play at the top of their game, the NYR will be a real contender. Of course the addition of one physical & fast D man would be a real boost for the whole TEAM.

The irony of all this is that the Rangers will probably end up playing Montreal in the playoffs. How will this horrible loss look then? What will the Blueshirts have learned?

Being a fan, I have learned, requires patience and a calm perspective. The team seems to be coming together in a way that most have imagined. The young turks are meshing with the HOF's well and bringing the necessary energy to the table. I get excited when I watch Dubinsky going to coast-to-coast, with a give-and-go from Jagr, and scoring on the "hottest goalie in the league." It fires me up when I see pinpoint passing on the power play and shots from the point with a crowd in front of the net. And nothing brings it home like a five-on-five domination in the attacking zone while the announcers are saying it "looks like a Ranger power play."

Things to wish for:
Use Valiquette more often. A two-goalie system creates durability.
Have Staal and Tyutin rush the puck more. What a great sight to see two young defenseman with the puck on their sticks.
Keep Hollweg-Betts-Orr intact. Lunch pail line does the dirty work game in, game out.
An experienced defenseman without losing (too much) youth.

Go RANGERS!

NCSteve do you remember what they did to them on Super Bowl Sunday?The Canadians were embarrassed then & were getting it again. Their pride was called upon by their coach, and they dug deep to make that comeback, similar to what they NYR did to them.

If blowing a 5 goal lead happened in say game 10 or 20 then I would not be so worried but it took place in game 62 which is a problem in my book. I personally don't have a favorite whipping boy on the Rangers but blowing a 5 goal lead can not fall on just one person it has to be on the entire team and coach.

I think this season in particular, the comment that it "looks like a Ranger power play" is not necessarily something to cheer about.

Re-post from last thread + another comment

Looks like FLA and TB are out of the playoffs and will be sellers. That may make a Boyle deal with NYR a bit more attractive. Goaltending looks like a soft spot in TB, so a Montoya deal may work. You can speculate about who else. Note: While Montoya started last night and was pulled with a "slight groin pull", Holt was also called up prior to the game. Interesting!!??!!

Someone posted something regarding Jay Bouwmeester and a possible NYR trade. I find that very hard to believe, that FLA would move him! But if that is a possible trade, they are looking for a forward who is a sniper. I would give them Dawes, Mara and a first round pick this year for him. Staal and JB as a first pair? Sounds pretty good to me. The last JB we had on defense was just fine.

Actually, the best deal seems to be Kaberle. He is under contract 'till 2011 at about $4.25MM/yr. That's a great price in the cap era for a pretty solid D'man with good offensive up side. Will he waive his NTC to join the Rangers? Depends who else is offering, but he would be stupid to remain in TOR.

Would Boyle be considered a rental? Or would they intend on signing him?


I'm thinking he is more of a rental since he is openly saying he wants about $6.5mm a season. I too would rather have Liles. I actually thik he would be a steal if we could get him. However, like others have said, I think the NYR are in the Boyle sweepstakes because the asking price is better. And like the NY Post mentioned today, Boyle seems willing to waive his no-trade clause to come here.

Dubi, this a fantastic description of this team. Great job with this.

It just goes to show how good this team can really be. We've seen flashes of it. But for a team that has that talent and the propensity to outplay their opponents almost on a nightly basis, but lose a ton of standing points because of mainly mental errors, egregious mistakes and the lack of simplifying the power play - one thinks if all this could be avoided by changing the coach.

I like Tom Renney and I also believe that firing him is not the right thing to do. He's the right guy for this job, in this city, in this media market. But I have to wonder what this roster would do if you transplanted them onto another team with another coach all together. Would there be as many mental lapses? Would the punishment of a more rigid coach get there attention and in return buckle down more points in the long run. Would he be a better motivator?

Guess we'll never know, but there were over a dozen points squandered this year because of these problems.

NC Steve, it's a bit early to be dealing in irony. The only way NYR plays MTL in the 1st round is if we finish fifth and they are fourth. Either that or they finish 1st and we are 8th. Neither scenario seems likely. Beyond the 1st round is too variable in that both teams would need to reach round 2 and probably wouldn't hook up there either. Conf Championship could happen, if both get there. Let's worry about getting in. Once there, let the cards fall where they may, eh?

Well I went to cook dinner and when I came back we were tied and heading into OT then lost in the shootout and I was just ubber depressed and annoyed ... UGH!

BUT I'm over it ... This reminds me of Dallas which had a 4-1 lead with 5 minutes to play and lost the game in OT last season to, I believe the Kings or Coyotes ... no matter ... point is it happens even if it sucks to high heaven ...

Hopefully they'll have a good two practice days and get ready to go and play a hard game vs BUF and FLA ...

Hey by the time the Rangers play on Saturday some of the teams who had games in hand won't have them any longer ...

Also, I think it's just a Sad SAD situation that whatever team wins the SE Division title will most likely get in the playoffs with LESS points than whichever teams ends up in 9th place which is just WRONG!

Will never happen, but what about this.

Montoya, Malik, Prucha, plus (?) FOR Boyle

Dawes, Mara & #1 pick in '08 FOR Bouwmeester

Call up Parenteau

Avery/Dubinsky/Jagr
Shanahan/Drury/Callahan
Straka/Gomez/Parenteau
Hossa/Betts/Orr

Rozsival/Boyle
Tyutin/Girardi
Bouwmeester/Staal

A repost from the last thread with some editorial tweaks:

Ant suggested that Valliquette wasn't brought in because Valli is unreliable? How can you say Valli is unreliable? I normally find Ant fairly reasonable, but what has Valli done to get that reputation in your eyes. If anything, I feel he has proven himself a solid back up.

As far as the Rucinsky trade rumor: 1. it's Larry Brooks, and Brooks has proven himself about as fairly reliable as that Ecklund bozo; and 2. even if true, perhaps that's because there's another trade in the works that's going to part with Prucha or Callahan or someone of that level.

G

Jesus H Christ ! Dawes, Mara, and a first round pick for Jay Bouwmeester ? I dont know but the 1st round pick seems to much for me. Sather better not trade the first rounder. This is a deep draft from what i understand. Thats why Philly traded there 3rd round pick to the Kings, but then traded Vandemeer to the Flames for a 3rd round pick so they can have it back. I dont know maybe its just me, but i dont wanna give up a 1st rounder.

Id be happy to have Boyle if he can stay healthy. I dont care aboot Montoya, unless he was comfy being a backu plike he says he would be, but i doubt that. Vally has steped up as of late, getting back to back shut outs, while Monty is looking to stay number one in the AHL. Its only a matter of time before he gets dumped. Im all for getting Liles or Boyle, as long as Anisimov, Cherepanov, Sauer, and Sanguinetti are not involved. Hopefully Nyr doesnt give up to much.

As for Kaberle, like i said, i heard he said he would definitely waive his NTC to come to Nyr, but also the last i heard is that he doent wanna leave the Leafs.

BTW

Brian Burke is one of te best GM's in the league. He's obviously gonna leave the Ducks to be the Leafs GM next season. So he's gonna trade to get Sundin, and he will likely send Cory Perry to the Leafs, along with someone else to get that pot sweeter. This guy is smart if he pulls it off. He just wants to get his number one goal scorer on the team he's goig too. I hope it doesnt happen, id hate to see the guy i wanted on the Rangers in 03, four times a year.

Lol, dont take the Ruch rumors serious. Last season we heard Sathe rmight trade Pruchs for Ruch, remember that ? Lol like i said, dont take it serious. This team has scoring, and secondary scoring right now. Defense is what we need to tighten on.

Bill why give all that away if we can have Boyle for nothing in a summer.

Rangerbill

Why would they bring up Parenteau, isnt Moore playing the best up there ?

Im all for trying to get Boyle, Bowmeester, or Liles, but i wish Nyr would have trade to get Jovo back when the Yotes werent looking like a playoff team. he can really help[ out, especially with the way he's playing. Then again i heard he didnt wanna waive his NTC, so eh. Either way, thank god Blake isnt on this team.

Godot

I said if Renney wouldve made the switch after the 4th goal Vali wouldve been too nervous under all of this pressure. I also said if he starts the game he can do some amazing things.But i just dont think hes a type of back up that can just jump in the middle of the game when the other team is on fire and save the day.As for having as a back up im more than happy with the wya he played.Unlike a lot of peole here i got a lot confidence in him but like i said when he starts the game.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02212008/sports/rangers/rangers_hot_for_boyle_98556.htm

"Again, Tampa Bay's strong preference is to keep Boyle, If, however, that is not possible, he may well be a Ranger in five days."

Orr

I know this draft is a deep one, so it is more important to hold on to rounds 2 & 3 than #1. I include Mara because it clears $3MM and we're going to dump him anyway come July. Prucha only because he is the low priced wing they will need come cap day. This way none of our "prospects" move.

ANT

Yes, it's a gamble. We could wait for the summer to pull Boyle in, but with him in the lineup now our chances of going deep in the playoffs gets better.

Orr (again)

Parenteau is the leading scorer and I understand he is fast. I think that's a better fit for Gomez, but I have no problem with Moore, either. I understand that both are "almost" NHL ready. Also, if you have this concern regarding Boyle staying health, and this is a guy with injury prone history, then why would you want Jovo. He's a walking bandaid!

according to MTL radio (I live 70 south of montreal in NY) Marian Hossa is going to the Canadiens. someone leaked that the team has ordered his equipment?

thats 70 miles south

Martyd

Anything Larry Brooks writes regarding trades needs to be looked at hard. It sounds nice that Boyle's prefernece, if traded, is NYR, but again the source is what it is.

The Rangers need Dan Boyle. I made rather have Kaberle but I like Boyle too. I telling I think Ruckinsky is coming back. I think thats a good idea only because the guys know him and we need depth.

eric

Now for the Paul Harvey, the rest of the story! What goes the other way??? Ryder, Price, Letendresse and a 1st round pick?

Eric im sure ATL will not trade Hossa before tradeline they will do anything they can to work out the contract wit him

dont know ive talked to 2 people who are big habs fans and nothings been said on AM 990 the station that repoted it. i figured ryders one, my friend thinks higgins might be another?

Matty

Rangers fan and you can cook? I'd be banging down your door!

Anyway, hasn't Boyle been injured most of the year? He got cut with the skate, right?

Can't say I'd understand bringing in Rucinsky...we've already got a surplus of 3rd line type talent

Jameson

Tell me aboot it. For the life of me i can not understand the point. He is useless, and whats the point of bringing in one of Jagr's buddies. The guy did nothing for us in the 06 playoffs, granted he played with a slowly healed broken bone in his wrist or what ever it was. Its a waste. I wouldnt even give up a 7th round pick for the guy. Id prefer Sykora if there going after Jags buds.

I wonder if the Rangers are talking any deals that involve Thomas Pock...not a bad season in Hartford, 51 games, 7 goals, 23 assists, +/- of 10. Then again if we trade him, he still has to clear waivers first, correct?

Hutchinson with even better numbers at 49 Games Played, 13 goals, 33 assists, +/- of 17.

Orr

Why in the world would Burke want to leave a good thing that he has with the Ducks for the mess called the Maple Leafs?

His entire life is set up on the west coast including his part ownership in the WHL Chilliwack Bruins with his pal Sather.

Sorry do not know where or why but Burke does not like answering to others and the Leafs have way too many chiefs.

ALL

First off this is not directed at any one person because I am seeing a ton of people everywhere making these trade rumors.

OK someone please explain this to me

For years people hated the idea of even mentioning trading any of the youth for rentals or older players.

Today everywhere I have looked at has people willing to trade away Ranger kids

Please someone explain to me why after all the screaming people were doing wanting Dawes to come back that now they are just as fast to trade him?

Not even a full season with the Rangers and people want to use him as tradebait now?

I mean really why? You have no idea as to just how good he is going to become and you are willing to trade him off.

Sorry it does not make any sense to me at all.

Perhaps the dumbest of ideas I have seen is a willingness to trade Bobby Sanguinetti for Kaberle.

It is dumb because the logic is that the Rangers supposedly have enough depth at the position to be able to make that move.

NO THEY DO NOT HAVE ANYONE LIKE SANGUINETTI IN THE SYSTEM.

Those who make this suggestion I will bet have never seen Sanguinetti play.

They say that they could get 4 good years out of Kaberle. But if they only had some working brain cells they would realize that with Sanguinetti, they will be getting a player who could help the Rangers for a decade or more.

Someone who has dreamed of one thing and that is becoming a Ranger. Someone who is going to put 20 goals a season up on the board.

Someone who is going to be that missing puck moving defender

Someone who is going to be that missing PP QB

Yet let us move a 20 year old for a 30 year old.

NOT

Heck I hardly have seen Cherepanov and I cover the prospects and I see people willing to trade him away for Sundin.

That too ranks as one very stupid deal.

Maybe the most annoying thing about all these wannabe GMs is that on one hand they say the Rangers stink but in the next breathe want them to sell the future for an appearance in the playoffs.

Make up your minds already people what do you want? Win one round now or build towards cup runs in the future?

Ramblings for the day:

Hossa-Gomez-Hossa (probably next year)...that's why you don't dump Hossa...that would be a good line...fast, scoring and defensively responsible

re Hossa and Montreal--apparently teams get equipment for players they might acquire, just in case...it's no big deal to them...

no trading Dawes or Dubinsky--too much talent, drive and hockey sense there...look at the strides both are making...and no trading Byers, Anisimov, Cherapanov, Dupont, Moore, Parenteau, Bourret, Sauer or Baranka, UNLESS you don't give away too many AND you get legit, long term talent in return--which is limited to a very few players...

why can't Byers and Moore get a longer look this year, especially Byers, who brings a component that would make Hollweg expendable?...plus, he can actually score...

what about McCabe? IF the Leafs are dismantling, then acquiring a player like him, that can hit, has a big shot and can score, makes sense...his cap hit is only like 4.5 per for the next two years

I would not give up a lot for Boyle, who can essentially dictate where he will go...and if he wants to come to NY, that makes a good Ranger trade almost inevitable...then in the off-season, we can deal with cap issues and Roszival and Hossa to see if they fit...

getting a Jackman makes alot of sense too...we need more toughness...but is that also achievable by the deadline without giving up our best prospects and simultaneously dumping Malik and Mara?

By next year, can we add Hossa and Boyle and get rid of Straka, Jagr, Shanahan, Malik and Mara, AND resign Avery and Roszival without busting the budget? we do have alot of youngsters that could move up and easily fill holes...

How does an NHL team recover from a choke? A bad team doesn't. A good team pulls it together and gets the job done at all costs, if only for one game. A Stanley Cup winning team feeds on the strength of it's captain, refusing to let him down as they learn from his experience in handling adversity.

Jess

My thought in trading Dawes was the same as your reasoning for trading Tyutin. I'm not advocating getting rid of Dawes. I have argued that he my be the onlt true sniper we have. However, Bouwmeester is 23 years old and is in his third year. He also is a D'man like nothing else we have in the system. He's big, strong, fast, smart and even has some offensive upside. As you pointed out in the Tyutin discussings, you have to give up something to get something. If we could make that deal without giving up a Dawes, I'm all for it. Again, I would not give up ANY youth unless it was a sure thing, big time improvement. I think JB would be that. If both deas were made (Bouwmeester & Boyle) then Sgas need not be rushed. He could continue to develop and at the right time, maybe in 1 or 2 years, replace Rozsival or Boyle. A defense of Staal, Boyle, Sags, Bouwmeester, Tyutin and Giradi just blows me away!

P.S Jess

If, instead of Dawes you want to give up Tyutin...that's fine also. In that case we end up with the 5th D'man anyway.

another night....another night teams we need to lose dont...

Buffalo jumped us, and the Islanders are 1 pt behind us now.... amazing...

cant believe we lost to MTL

Jess

I too am amazed at the rediculous suggestions for trades being bantered about.As a fan of this team the last 33years all I can say is that I'm not in a hurry to return to the days of trading promising kids for aging vets with names hoping to squeeze one or two good seasons out of them and then doing it again and again and getting knowhere.If a trade is to be made,why not try a novel idea and go after young vets who have plenty left and can be players to build around instead of fill ins.If a good deal can't be worked out than it is not meant to be and we should just go forward.

Give up Tyutin the guy is 24 and in his 4th yr. palying...

I just looked at the rosters, the rangers have one of the younger teams.. they have 7 guys 30 or older; malik, vally, jagr, straka, shanny, drury, and strudwick.

there is decent chance only 1 of them will be on the team next yr. They are building a good young club.. They get Liles for an example he is only 27, Boyle will be 32 yrs old in Sept(I think) trade 3 or 4 guys for a undersized almost 32 yr old D man(a good one but really)...

Marian Hossa will be 30 before next season... Yes shanny, straka, and Jagr are 3 of the rangers top 6 scorers at this time but they are all on the downside of there career and I doubt anyone would argue that. Say they lose malik, mara, shanny(he is 39) and the 2 Czech players then they have money to sign 1 stud forward and then use some of there =home grown talent... Are Cherapanov and others ready, I have no clue but he is 19 and looked damn good in the junior championship to me... My point is they are moving in the right direction and I believe given more minures; gomez, drury, dawes, prucha, callly, and dubi, can all score 20 or more goals each next yr. Given top 3 line minutes call me a fool I think they can do that...Add 1 stud signee in the offseason a 30+ guy and they have a legit team. I also say scrap this 7 goal in total 4th line, yes you need some addtl. size and toughness but you need guys who can get you 10 or 12 goals in a yr. not 1 or 2. Hollwegg is 24 so maybe he can improve...


the bottom line is the rangers should not sell young guys for OLD guys and they are moving in the right direction.

next yr. malik, mar, and strudwick will not be on the blueline, they have 3 legit somewhat proven youn d men nd if Roszival has reasonable demands maybe sign him also.

The rangers are moving in the RIGHT DIRECTION< ALL>

Well, I've said for quite a while bowmeester would be a great pickup, I wish it were true that the potential deal is there. I just do not think florida would let him go. As far as boyle or kaberle goes, a definite upgrade offencively over what we have, but If one of them comes in then rozy has to go. Our D lacks a big hitter now, so we do not need more than one big time puck mover in the line up. Lastly, do not forget the dollar importance of struds to the roster. He makes much less money than most other d men in the league and if the rangers do get a high dollar d man or two soon, struds and his salary are going no where except in the top six (or seven occasionally). He is huge bang for his buck in today's NHL. The only way I see him not being a 6th d man (or 7th at worst) is if a youngster from the pack gets the spot (and will obviously have a low salary cap hit). In my opinion though, struds keeps the spot until sags or sauer takes it, just an opinion though!!!

Is there anyone else out there that thinks we should hang onto Shanahan?

RB

First off to be honest I had not even read your offering of Dawes as I was reacting to every other site I had looked at today. The difference I give to you was that you were not one of those who were constantly screaming for Dawe's recall in December. You were level headed in his treatment and unlike so many of those I am seeing today.

Yes I am over protective of the kids especially someone like Dawes who I have watched for years just like I am ticked off at those willing to move Sanguinetti.

Look I am not trying to pat myself on the back but I do know these kids, I communicate with them all the team and follow their every move just about.

I really wish they would put Dawes on the left point of the PP as I used to watch him QB the Kootenay PP and if he had finishers he would have had 70-80 assists. People talk about Dawe being a scorer but he is actually a way better passer.

As for Sanguinetti, we are talking about a kid with a laser accurate shot from the point, heck from everywhere as he can create his own offense just like Leetch used to. I hate to put pressure on him but when it comes to his offense that is the only defenseman I can talk about.

Czech

That you and I are agreeing on not moving the prospects is enough to reassure me that my views are correct. We may not agree on a lot but it seems when we do agree it is about the most basic goals like developing players from within.

Do these people not realize that when they start up giving away kids that they are proving the Dolan's right? It was the Dolans who claimed that Ranger fans never would support a rebuild because they want everyone else's star players.

Scary when a Dolan is right

JOE

I do. I think if he doesnt retire, they should re sign him. he's been a rock on the PP for us. Maybe he's not putting up 05 - 06 numbers, but he's been a leader for the team.

Teams got closer to us. Boston, Isles, Sabs, all won. Thats just perfect. The Pens won as well, so now there out of reach for the time being.

That loss just fugged us. I hope that doesnt come down to the deciding points to make the playoffs.

Dubi and Jess,

Since the thread moved, I thought I'd continue the discussion here.

Regarding Rodent's rant, I agree that it was a) meant in part to elicit a response from readers and whip up some discussion (succeeded) and b) fairly inaccurate in his description of the canadiens owning the whole game despite the first 30 minutes.

What I thought was most useful was his desciption of the D's play. He characterized them as soft, consistently backing down and giving forwards easy access to the slot, not clearing the puck enough or with enough confidence, etc etc. Basically, he was saying the D did nearly everything wrong - the fact that Montreal scored 4 of it's goals from the slot shows that the Rangers were NOT taking away the most potent goal scoring area of the ice. Yes, they did do a good job of getting in the lanes and blocking a lot of shots - the Rangers usually do this, and have often held the opposition to a low shot total. HOWEVER, this means jack if the chances you do let through are from prime time real estate. Against Montreal, in the last 30 minutes (with the exception of the Kovalev goal that squirted through), every one of Montreal's chances came from the middle, not from bad angles. The D was collapsing not on the puck or around the harsh marks and below, but rather back into their own zone. Montreal consistently and easily gained the blueline the most of the whole game, and especially in the 3rd period when they started to pick it up.

Dubi, you characterized the D as such "But the truth is, those waves were crashing on defensive wall that was doing its job in its own end. Yes, Ranger fans, you heard me right -- the defense was doing its job."

I just thought this was so far off base and so far removed from any honest and semi-objective analysis. Rodent's rant was written as such to garner a certain type of a response, and he stretched the facts to make the case that Montreal actually owned the game.

I think you strectched the facts on the D's play to make the case that if, only if, Hank stopped goal number 3, they would've won (which, of course, you don't know, because you don't know what would've happened). The fact is, the D, for giving Montreal the blueline and prime superb scoring chances - which I think they were doing most of the game actually (lundqvist did make a ton of key stops in the first 30 minutes, mind you), they are more complicit in the loss than lundqvist.

A goalie is only as good as his Defense, and against Montreal, the D was about as pitiful as it could get.

Whoa, calm down folks: we lost a point on these teams that won. A point! That has nothing to do with the Montreal game--it has to do with the inconsistent play to date. We did not think we would be worrying about our position for the playoffs at this point in the season when we were excited about this team in September. The Montreal game represents the problem with the Rangers all year, but it alone is not responsible for the teams precarious position with the other teams in the East. That's why a game in hand is so scary.

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