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October 26, 2007


From the previous thread.

Paulf, why not Straka? I agree about Hollweg and Strudwick. Shanny should just do PP and PK. He just doesn't cut it even strength.

I don't agree about Callahan. He's been stymied by playing with Betts too much, as was Prucha. Big mistake by Renney forming that combination.

OK, what about Straka? Where is he going to play? At center? Not with Dubinsky playing as well as he has plus Renney is giving him more work each game. Not going to replace Drury or Gomez so that leaves Betts. I see it as competition between Straka and Betts. Betts is a great defensive player so it's going to be tough for Straka there unless Renney decides to go with 4 offensive lines which puts Orr, Strudwick, Hollweg and Betts on the bubble.

At wing we got Hossa, Dawes, Prucha, Callahan, Jagr, Avery, Shanny. Already seven wingers for six jobs. With Straka, you now have eight. Who's he going to replace?

The timing will be good when he comes back. By that time, the coach should have a good reading on how Hossa and Dawes will pan out long term. At this point, if he plays his best players and not play favorites (which I haven't seen too much of from him), I will keep withholding my call to Hartley!

I see the dilemma Lenny. When Straka comes back, that might be right around the time he gets packaged with Montoya, and Prucha. . . . . or maybe Callahan for a stud Dman.
Although with the great job Renney is doing with this defense, we may not even need to make that trade.

What a great game for the Rangers! Just the sheer energy that was exhibited is heartening. I mean, look at all of the chances around Brodeur and in the Devils' zone. And look at the opposite end of the rink. So few chances and so few rebounds. And I didn't realize that it was Rachunek who assisted on the first goal! Thanks!

But I do disagree about Shanahan. Sure he's stymied right now, but you've got to keep going with him. His slump will end. His overall contributions are needed to this team. Just his presence--mentally and physically--help the young guys. The intangibles. Add to that his goals and assists (which will come) and you've got a veteran who deserves his ice time. That said, it is important to rest him for the long haul. I wouldn't disagree in letting him sit a game here or there. You've got to think of the playoffs and being ready. (Does he have an incentives package, where "games played" might be a consideration? Just a thought.)

Anyway, it was great to watch the Rangers digging and hustling last night. And to do it to the Devils was even more special. To watch Brodeur put his hands up in disgust after the second goal was priceless.

And the "passing of the torch" comment is apt. It was interesting to note that MSG and YES last night showed Lundqvist and Brodeur programs, respectively, before the game. Also, we might consider the passing from the "standup goaltender" to the "butterfly goalies," as well. Brodeur is one of the last of a dying breed. Don't see too many standup goalies much anymore, relying on instincts and savvy. Hopefully "stacking the pads" won't become a thing of the past.

I hope they dont trade cally or pruchs we dont need nobody else OUR D IS PERFECT.

Last nights win was great and all, I've been raving all about it, but you guys are all pointing out things i pointed out about the last two LOSSES! The rangers have been playing with energy, have been getting great chances, and so on and so forth, the puck was just NOT reaching the back of the net,the difference with last nights game was that the puck finally got past the goal line for us, and things are looking to turn around.

Dawes had a great game last night but lets becareful we have been down this road before. Remember Daniel Goneau? I like Dawes but this team is getting to small. Plus are the Rangers really going into the next three games with Strudwick as a forward? I smell a trade coming on.

Oh yea, and if they trade prucha, I'm sacraficing a kitten on the steps of MSG

Dude Sutter ripped Rachunek for that turnover ... I mean totally ripped him and then went on to rip his team for only getting 7 points out of 18 possible of their first 9 games. It's kind of strange seeing that since the Devils, for so many years, have kept such things in-house ...

Anyhow ... Even Larry Brooks admitted jumping the gun a few weeks ago when he ripped the team and Renney when he assumed that the coach was going to go with veterans instead of Dubinsky/Staal in a game ... The rookies are showing poise and the ability to be defensively responsible while contributing offensively and if that continues then I see them just getting more ice time and playing in more key situations as they did last night ...

The second goal was pure sniper by Dawes. That was great to see.

"Oh yea, and if they trade prucha, I'm sacraficing a kitten on the steps of MSG"



No Kittens or Puppies sacrifices!!!

Also can we stop we the trade talk, specially the ones involving our young players? There is no need to trade anyone only 9 games into the season anyway ...

Comparing Dawes to Goneau isn't fair to Dawes.

Dubinsky with 3 mins of PP time last night. Nice to see the kid has Offensive talent, a guy like Betts who has other talent will never have.

wow, i haven't seen, or heard, a Goneau reference in 10 years. Thank you emscam

I think trading Straka would be a huge mistake.. once he's back, he has to play with Jagr. Gomez will adjust to a slower-paced, set-up job, but Straka and Jagr have excellent chemistry.

excellent game indeed! (and excellent post dubi.) as i had wished hossa came through with a solid game (although not scoring) and the D cleared the crease and made henrik's job a bit easier. two snipes by dawes were superb, he ain't large but that guy has got speed, guts, and a great wrist shot! if he plays hard each and every shift then renney will have to keep him on a scoring line. look at st. louis, you don't need to be large to survive and thrive in the nhl, but you have to play hard each time out and never back down. that's what makes prucha so good, he gets clobbered 2 or 3 times a game and never complains to the refs, or team mates, it doesnt stop his drive. and i would agree - no way you trade prucha, plus he's a 'fan favorite'. we have some extra D and montoya to offer as trade bait, if it comes to that. but it seems that we have no reason to make that move right now. too early in the season. there will be plenty of movement during the late season clearing house, it seems to get crazier every year. what with ryan smith going to the islanders, and all. how absurd was that temporary move. anyways, the only change i would like to see is please don't put giradi on the PP. he seems to get easily flustered at the point. i thought i saw him there a few times, could be mistaken though. finally, maple leafs are a big team and will seek to put a hurtin' on dawes, prucha, etc. i hope orr, hollweg, strudwick, keep the leafs on notice: no funny stuff.

Goneau, a name out of the past. Turned out to be a flash in the pan as has so many former Ranger prospects and hopefully a very small amount of the present prospects. Think Dawes has shown his iability a lot longer than Goneau ever did.

Anybody agree with me that Hossa's game, when he decides to play, is pretty similar to the way Jon Erixon played? That's why I say that Dawes and Hossa aren't in competition, they each offer a different component to the overall game.

Dawes isn't that small either, more like a fireplug, low to the ground and can take hits and dish them out a lot better than Prucha. Prucha needs to play too but more limited to conserve his physical health. Remember Camille Henry? What a sniper but small and got creamed many times. Elmer(Moose)Vasko with the Blackhawks who was one of the biggest defenseman in the league, at that time, who plastered Henry into the boards at the old MSG and after laying on the ice for a bit, came back and later scored a goal. The Rangers loved Henry and mercifully traded him to the Blackhawks so he wouldn't have to face Moose except in practice. When he came back to the Garden, he got a standing O and not a Ranger hit him hard all game. That wouldn't happen today since players move around so much.

Well this is nice to read from Steve Zipay :

"One victory isn't a winning streak

.....And coach Tom Renney cursed at players during practice today who he perceived as taking drills lightly.

Nice to see and hear"

Yep that's good. Yeah they won last night but it was against a team that is having as much trouble scoring as they do and only one player scored, albeit twice, so while I think that they are on the right track they need to be focused and bring it on because they can't expect to win consistently only scoring 1-2 goals per game by one or two players ... so this is good to read ...

Pavel, can't build the team around Jagr anymore. Jagr will have to adjust to the new up and coming guys. Getting pretty close to the time we should be phasing out the old and bringing in the new, slowly but definitely make a start.

I just see Straka as the first to go with Shannny not far behind. If both Hossa and Dawes keep it up, Straka is expendable. Maybe using him and Malik or even Rozi in a deal will bring back that big tough D that the Rangers still nedd in the long run.

Mara played a good physical game last night. The weak links are Malik and Rozi. Malik played well last night but his gaffe the game before cost the Rangers the game. One good game then one bad game just doesn't cut it. Rozi has been shaky all season.

Matty, maybe Renney is reading this board. If so, it means with Dubi's monitoring, our views can be treated with respect by Renney and others. Of course he'll have to read my posts. :)

Dubi's right in monitoring the board but like Vince, who I agree with, if Dubi has our e-mail address, he should address posting issues there and not post it publicly. Dubi, some of us are older than you and in some cases (Bones, myself among others) a lot older so it is demeaning for us to get a post like you sent Vince. Of course if someone signs on with a bogus e-mail address, you have no choice.

Just constructive criticism from someone who might be older than your father, much less you.

Malik's "gaffe" in Pittsburgh cost us the game? Come on. The team didn't score in two games, and you're pinning Malik for that loss?

Although Lenny, if people don't want to get posts that they perceive as "demeaning" because they are older then they should act their age when they post and not post anything that can be perceived as something that leaves room to be publicly criticized. This is Dubi's blog and I am of the thought that Dubi can publicly come down on whomever he likes. While I am in my 20's If I made some coments that were out of line and I got publicly called on them, it wouldn't make me feel good, but by the same token I brought it onto myself.

Matty, sure he can but good posters like Vince and others might leave otherwise. There's a big difference from disagreeing with somebody respectfully and making it personal and calling names at each other. It's up to Dubi to determine just how much dissing he'll accept when we direct our name calling at the Ranger personnel.

What's so difficult about sending a polite e-mail vs a public flogging? Personally, I don't think I've dissed anybody. I've disagreed but always tried to keep it respectful (as I am doing now) or humorous. Sure I've been on Renney's case but never said Renny is a #$^@&&. Criticsized him like crazy with some sarcasm and humor, is that over the line as far as you are concerned?

Lenny im sure Dubi is doing that thru here so that way the rest of the people can see thats its not gonna be tolerated no matter how old u r

I didn't write a single demeaning word, Lenny. I didn't have the ability to monitor posts during the game and wanted everyone, not just Vince, to understand how things were going to be dealt with. If you all prefer, there are other options:

1. I can turn off commenting altogether, which I don't want to do.
2. I can force commenters to register before they're allowed to post, something that you probably don't want to have to go through.
3. I can turn on moderation, which means that no posts become public until I approve them, but that will take away the real-time aspect of the discussion, especially when I'm not in front of my computer.
4. I can let this space become a toilet like so many others, which ain't gonna happen.
5. You can all just follow two simple rules: keep the language clean, and respect the people you are debating with and debating about.

Anyone incapable of adhering to point number 5 -- it is not me who has demeaned them, they have demeaned themselves. And they will ultimately ruin it for everyone else if I have to seek an alternative solution.

To be honest, I didn't read Vince's original post that you scolded him on. I've read his posts, and never caught anything where he demeaned others. He seemed upset by what you did and if that was a first for him, think you could've handled it different. That's my only point. That's where age enters into it.

With that said, I appreciate what you do and it is a thankless job. As others have posted, age has no bearing if you demean others, and personally have no problem with #5 unless by respect you mean not be critical of what hockey individual we are talking about. In that case you are doing what Rodent did and have to follow his opinions like sheep or else you are booted.

So far you haven't done that so I hope you keep it that way.

I like change of guard in goal comment - I was thinking exactly the same. There were games like this last season when The King was making unbelievable saves, had to face almost twice as many shots but Rangers would still lose to Devs in the end. This game was EXACTLY the opposite.

I'm one of the few fans of Hossa on this board and I was glad to see him play the way he did last night. Other than Dawes he was the best forward on the ice and other than scoring - he did everything else (PK, puck support, playing in the corners, passing, defense etc).

Renney continues to prove his style with the youngsters (which is very clear if you care to see). First, they have to show themselves as defensively responsible, and only after that they would get more and more important ice time.

This game shows why fans should not have panic so early in the season. With this lineup the goals would come eventually. Playing exceptional D during this time is what is going to define this team this season. My concern for this year was the possibility of a slow start by Henrik and since this is not the case I was able to take these losses in stide. And if they going to lose a few more game than you'd like before the mid season - think about last year's Ottawa team and their season developed from the start until Stanley Cup Finals and... exhale.

Obviously there has been a lot of criticism going on that has not drawn any attention other than counter-opinion. It is possible to criticize someone without being disrespectful -- it really all boils down to name-calling, doesn't it?

lenny, that makes sense. If Jagr is gone, Straka might as well be too. I wonder if we can convince the Habs to give up Ryder and Markov!

Agreed Dubi. I think I can say Renney did a bad job, Renney needs to be fired, Renney is a bad coach...and so on without it being considered disrespectful but if I say Renney is a %^$&$ or demean him in some other personal manner (which I did as a snide remark in the past)the post deserves to be removed as was mine that one time.

Think we are on the same page.

Lenny this is part of what Vince wrote :

"The Rangers problems start at the top with cigar puss.He has shown he is a hasbeen from the time we got him,and he's not going anywhere because therich moron who made an ass of himself in court with that other sport loves cigar puss."

I underlined and bolded the name he called Glen Sather. I think we all know what he was really calling him, now if that wasn't Vince's intent then I stand corrected but it was obvious to me and I guess others. Too many times I have seen some people here, not talking about just Vince now, come on here and while they do not name call other posters they go ahead and do so to our own players and specially our head coach and GM. How many times have I seen Renney called degrading names and such? I think it is completely unnecessary to talk that way about our own players and our coach ... Yeah disagree with players on here but do it in an intelligent, respectful manner so that this blog's comment area doesn't become Sam Weinman's comments area which I stopped going to since last season because it's unbearable to read most of the comments in it. I am sorry, but my belief still stands, if someone makes a questionable comment for all to see then that person shouldn't get all upset and bothered when they are called out on that comment. Particularly when it was done in a respectful manner by Dubi, imo. The point of the matter is that people don't like being called out in front of others and that's what this boils down to. So if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen as the old saying goes.

Dubi cigar puss to me means cigar face.


I posted that, I am not saying that's why Dubi made the comment he made to Vince ... but to me, personally, I took that comment by him as a personal attack on Sather instead of a professional critique of his work so everything else that Vince wrote, even if he had good points I didn't grasp because the name calling overshadowed the entire post.

After the first goal last night I figure we were due for a breakout game, then I snapped out of that fantasy and realized it was Marty across the way last night. He played very well as everyone said mainly on Drury's chances. Hank looks great which is a huge reason we won but our defence has looked amazing the last few games. We should have won all 3 but last night is something to build on. It is nice to hear Renney light a fire under everyones behinds this morning. They need it and he needs to show it.
While I don't like Marcel Hossa, I will be the first to admit that he has played very well with Jagr and Gomez despite the lack of goals. Also, sitting Malik last week turned out to be a great decision for two reasons. One, to shut everyone up including me and two, his play has picked up considerably. He made one bad play last night and corrected it right after by himself. The entire 3 D-Lines looked great last night and for the past few nights and deserve the credit for it too. Marc Staal looks extremely comfortable but I'd like to see him get some PP time. I know he is a defensive defenceman but he does have some moves and I think his youth will not get in the way of him shooting the puck.
It was great to see Nigel Dawes get those two goals last night, the second more impressive than the first, walking out from the half boards.
We did a much better job of getting in the slot and in the way of Marty, we just need to collect rebounds better.
It was also interesting to see the lack of any type of fisticuffs but that is a direct lack of no Avery and no Cam Janssen.
I just feel bad for Renney right now with Avery in his ear nonstop trying to get into the line-up Monday.


lol I think Avery can talk Renney's ear off and until the training staff give the ok for Avery to be back on the ice without the possibility of re-injuring himself he is just wasting his words but hey I know he won't stop trying ... apparently Avery tried to start practicing sooner than he was supposed to last week as well lol


In response to your question from the previous thread...I've liked Straka this year, especially in the Atlanta game where he was playing tenaciously, and really finishing his checks. Last I saw Callahan, he was picking up devastating penalties and not really producing much at the other end. In the couple Like I said, I didn't see the Boston game (due to CI, not for lack of effort), but before that he just didn't seem very influential. Perhaps Prucha also wasn't; being out there with Betts couldn't have helped either. However, Prucha at least seemed positively reckless at times, while Callahan on almost shift, few as they may have been was, well, feckless.

His goal this season was a real beauty, displaying smarts, poise and thrilling accuracy. However, nobody on the team should be assured of a place based upon last season's, or last spring's, results.

One thing I forgot to ask was if anyone knows who that was wearing the 44 Hollweg jersey for the Rangers last night because it certainly wasn't Ryan Hollweg. You put the guy on the 3rd line and he shows some skill, mind you he didn't look like a 40 goal scorer but he also didn't look out of place at all on that line last night.

avery chomping at the bit big time. think i noticed him sitting in the locker room as the msg camera panned after the game last nite. he needs to fully heal before he hits the ice. the other teams will be looking for him, as usual, and he needs to take the hits and dish out equally. say, where'd he get those eye-glasses he has on for the msg pic!?? you all see that pic?? so funny... just avery being avery i guess.

Matty, you are preaching to the choir!! :)

Lenny and others, I think we forget one thing re: the name calling of Slats, Renney and others. BB is an independent newspaper covering the Rangers. it doesn't have the clout of a major or regional newspaper behind it. Therefore, every negative comment runs the risk of irking some people who give Dubi, Jess, Bruce and others great access that they then give to us.

I run a program for 16-20 year olds every summer--it's a week long creative writing program, and I have no curfews, no bed checks, nothing like that. I tell them there's one rule: "Don't ______ it up." Dubi has defined what _____-ing it up would be. We have to abide by it. Personally, I've seen a lot of language here that runs counter to Dubi's desire to make this a fan friendly, family site, and Dubi has the rite to monitor that as he sees fit. We all know the rules--including Vince--so don't _____ it up.

Paul, alot of the penalties being called on Cally are phantom penalties. There was one game he got called for a penalty, and the other player was actually leaning on Cally's stick. Come on now. Callahan has been a great presence on the PK, making hits, being a pest in the offensive zone when the opponent is trying to get things moving.

As today's topic is the "children" I have to say I am so excited about this Cherepanov kid. Flipping through the media guide at the game last night I read what this guy has done in Russia. In his first year in the Superleague his 29 points bests first year marks put up by Malkin,Ovechkin and Kovalchuk!!
His 18 goals as a rookie tops Bures 17. Wow. How many years away is this machine?

I need to defend my remark about Straka so

I said that the Rangers should trade Straka if and only if Hossa, Dawes and Dubinsky continue to play this well and most importantly produce.

When Straka Avery and Callahan come back that forces 3 people out of the lineup. Strudwick being 1, and then who should leave the lineup. and point in putting any of our young guys on the 4th line.

If Hossa and Dawes are playing this well I say we trade Straka who is not a part of the future of this team. He hasn't done anything wrong its just a good business decision.

Package him with Mara and a mid level prospect or a draft pick we could afford a quality offensive defenseman to pair with Staal. Someone like a Vishnovsky, McCabe, Redden, would be huge for our power play.

I am only suggesting that if Dawes, Dubinsky and Hossa can prove that they are integral parts of the Rangers NOW, then Straka is very expendable.

Godot, like Matty, you are preaching to the choir. Other than some humor mixed with sarcasm plus just pure criticisms, I don't think any Ranger personnel reading the site would be upset enough to deny Dubi and Jess the access they now have. If we just posted goody goody stuff, they would be bored.

I'm sure Renney reading some of the negative criticism wouldn't be happy but if done respectfully, he just might give it some thought. I try to give him credit when he has done something I thought was good. If I've demeaned him personally, show me!


Maybe I'm missing the things you're seeing. Callahan will get his chance when he's healthy, and I hope my thinking changes after that. He certainly should be motivated, moreso after last night. Maybe it comes down to either Hollweg or Betts out, as lennynyr and others have said. Didn't Renney in the pre-season say Callahan was a natural center?

Oleo, you said it (Straka) too? Missed your post on that.

All, isn't great to have enough good young players so that Renney has some big decisions to make on who plays and who doesn't?

"I'm sure Renney reading some of the negative criticism wouldn't be happy but if done respectfully, he just might give it some thought."

Lenny, that's just it though ... it isn't being done respectfully ... i highly doubt that when someone says that Renney is "stupid" "imbecile" "piss-poor" "Pu#@!" and such is criticizing him in a respectful manner. Not saying that you have called him those names, can't recall, but I have seen those comments and much more made about Renney here ...

Matty, I'm sure Dubi would catch that and delete such remarks. Plus I never said that saying Renney is s "stupid" "imbecile" "piss-poor" "Pu#@!" and such is a respectful manner of criticizing him. But I did say that Rennney deserves to be fired if..., Renney made a bad move which was..., Renney is a bad coach because ..etc. etc is not demenaing him, just criticizing him. If you think otherwise then we have to agree to disagree.

im looking for tickets for the rangers skating party for 11 please email me at [email protected] if you have anything


This is what i wrote yesterday:


Callahan earned his spot last season and in the playoffs. If you had to pick 2 guys to keep out of the line up who would it be?

Personally I don't see how Marty Straka fits on this team. When everyone is healthy you would assume that Hossa and Dawes would be out of the lineup but they have been the best players for the Rangers for the past 2 games.

This will be an interesting situation in the future and not a bad problem to have. I think that maybe the Rangers could package Straka and Mara and get an upgrade on defense but it's just a suggestion not like any changes in personnel are needed at this time.

Posted by: oleosmirf | October 26, 2007 at 03:01 AM

Also consider substituting Rozi or Malik for Mara. Depends who we get back and who is replaced.

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