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July 30, 2007

Comments

I understand the business, i.e. cap, aspect of things but geez Slats. $1.3 mil borders on the rediculous. Avery turned us around and changed our focus for the playoff run. Offer him $2 mil, shake hands, and blow off the hearing. Rangers chemistry can be extremely fragile. Now is not the time to screw it up. If you want to screw someone in arbitration, screw Hossa not Avery. Losing him will have far less impact on the team. You'll regret it later we lose Avery due to your desire to be cheap.

Yes, this is a business but regardless of the arbitration outcome, Sean Avery will be comforted by the greeting he receives opening night.

While that doesn't pay the bills, any anger he has will be mitigated by the fact that most Ranger fans would rather have him on the team than Sather running it.

Why does Sather have to be such a "dick"......he is like that @$$hole boss (everyone has had once in their life) I say screw Hossa and give Avery $2.4

I worry about the mental impact on Avery. I hope that he doesn't take this personally with all the money that has been spent on other players. Why not offer him a one year deal with a wink and a nod to negoatiate a longer term deal after Jan 1 like Hank. I have a bad feeling about the impact on his psyche.

Sean if you are reading this.....THE FANS DON'T AGREE WITH SLATS!

Sather's apparent offer disappoints me. What the hell, did we deal Cullen away just for cushion space? C'mon Sather, give the man the money he deserves (IMO, at least 2 million). 1.3 is probably the epitome of low-balling in this particular case. And it doesn't even end at the offer. What is with all the negative comments about Avery? I, like many other Ranger fans, haven't had one negative thing to say about the guy since his arrival.

Detriment to a team? Unnecessary penalties? Hmm. Disappointing.

I saw an unexpected skill set from Avery last year and he was a key factor in the turnaround. However, he had about half a season with us, played well against ATL and "talked up" what he was going to do against BUF. He was a non-factor against BUF, more because he was hurt then anything else. Should have kept his mouth shut. I would not go more than a one year contract, he has a history that should not be forgotten just because of what he did last year. Like Renney said of Callahan and Girardi...I want to see if he can do it for an entire season. I still hang more hope on Dupont, but he may take 2-3 years to develop. Brodie shows more skill, more leadership and a level head so that's the guy I want to fill the role Avery currently has.

I think that Avery is and intracul part of this team and he may take some penalties but also draws them, and honelestly i think i would rather have him on the team rather then face him. i aslo agree with everyone else and say screw over hossa and sign avery with the wink and a nod.

Sather needs a dictionary...detriment...harm, hurt, damage.

Takes bad penalties,what about Jags who hooks instead of skate or malik who can't skate at all.Thats a lousy example of him being a detrement.sather still sucks even though he's made some good moves lately you can't change his stripes.

Great article. Extremely informative with some great comparison players! I would have preferred to se slats take it a little easier on the kid. However, let's not get carried away: Avery has a long history of wearing out his welcome. 20 regular season games does not automatically erase that. The kid has shown tremendous promise and value, BUT HE HAS A LOT TO PROVE. His vanishing act in the playoffs is no less important than his short regular season success. Even if he is offended, he'll have a full season to get over it. Success has a funny way of healing wounds. If he's succesful this season the Rangers will undoubtedly try to get him signed longer term.

The problem with arbitration hearings is that it is impossible for the fans to separate emotion from business. This is a business transaction, plain and simple. Avery is a guy who is known for mouthing off. HHe's now saying he can't take criticism? Sather may be an ass, but he would do the same thing to any player that takes his team to arbitration. It's not like Sather held a press conference and blasted Avery. He filed his defense of the contract offer just as Avery filed his justification of the money he earned. It will be somewhere in the middle. If Lundquvist was up for arbitration, Sather would have to point out his weaknesses. You can be sure that he would talk about Jagr's penalties and refusal to do shootouts if it was against him. Sather's pre-lockout performance (until the purge) was a disgrace. Since then, I like a lot of what he has done, but he still hasn't earned my respect. I don't think this is Something to rip Sather for, as it is just a business decision. I also agree with Dubi, this is the best way to deal with Avery. One year of motivated play at a time. Let him prove he has changed his ways of wearing out his welcome. If we had him locked up to a longterm deal and he becomes a distraction that can't get along with his teammates, he'd be impossible to move. LA could only move him after a year of rehabilitating his image and keeping his mouth shut so he COULD be traded to the Rangers.

I'm sure a guy like Avery has been called a lot worse than "a detriment". Probably by some of the same guys he plays with now. You want to make 2-3 million a year? Show the GM with a 1 year contract/ blowout season-then Avery calls the shots for his next contract....What is the GM supposed to be a therapist now too? His job is to win/make money. Avery's is to win/make money. They are on the same side as far as the winning goes and advesaries on money matters.

After reading the Brooks article I was incensed by Sather's comments that Sean Avery was a detriment to the team. Hello Slats, he was one of the biggest assets to the team and their making the playoffs. The teams record after he arrived and his 20 pts in 29 games speak for themselves. If anyone is a detriment it is the GM himself, making these moronic comments about Sean who played his heart out and gave this team some grit and fire that was missing before he arrived. He deserves 2 million. Most Ranger fans love Sean Avery and appreciate his style of play.
The most ironic thing is that Sean is almost a carbon copy of Slats when he played, but with more speed and offensive ability.

Hello to my fellow Ranger fans:

I think that during the first home game of the season we should all GIVE AVERY A LOUD STANDING OVATION because what this guy did for us last season was imeasurable. The guy was a warrior and a fun player to watch. Elisha Cuthbert doesn't hurt either:)

The point of "arbitration" is for two sides to list reasons that support the numbers they are asking to have the arbitrator decide on. Sather "must list" detriments. If he just agrees with everything the Avery camp puts out then it costs him over a millon dollars.

If Avery bascially says "hey the team sucked and then I came aboard and they started winning. I guess I'm the reason they turned it around" isn't he badmouthing the rest of the team? Nobody seems too upset with that.

He's a big boy, i want him back and more "good" players respond to challenges than to being stroked anyway so here we go...with an angry Avery

Uh, guys, Avery sounds like a bit of whiner in that article. He was great for the team, don't get me wrong, but he's a big tough guy: he should be able to handle some criticisms from the GM (whether we think they're justified or not). Slats is doing his job and he thinks having both Hossa and Avery on the team is crucial to the team's success--crucial enough to go to arbitration for it.

Personally, I wish I could go to arbitration for my job, but it's not possible. Since I'm sure many of you wouldn't mind making 1.1 million dollars a year, let alone 1.3 or 1.7 (which is where I think the deal will be signed at), particularly if you had a bad reputation coming into your position. Let's see what Avery does this year. Will he be the Avery he was when he came into the lockerroom or the Avery who showed up against Buffalo? Is he going ot be the one who says bigoted remarks or is he going to be the one that brings the teamt ogether. We don't know.

The only quote from the Ranger brief in the article is a single phrase -- "a reasonably effective player as well as a detriment to the team" -- not even a complete sentence. It even contains a compiment (albeit a tempered one) in addition to a criticism, which based on Avery's comments is based on his penalty minutes. So take it in context, folks -- which means, don't take the phrase out of context. The Rangers are trying to make a case that Avery is worth half of what he's asking for, so they have to criticize something, and with little else to criticize, they had to spin his hefty penalty minutes negatively. Avery's agent will make the opposite case -- arguing that the PIM demonstrate the grit he brought to the team, which was instrumental to its success. It's an adversarial process, not a lovefest. And Avery is a big boy -- he can take it. He knows why the comments are being made, and rest assured he knows the impact of his public statement expressing his disappointment.

I've got to agree that Avery seems a bit whiny in the Post article. What did he expect arbitration to be like?
I know he was a big reason why the Rangers turned things around last year, but he wasn't THE reason. Maybe he allowed himself to think that and now his ego's a little bruised.

Sather & Renney could also be classified with Avery as detriments & improvements.

I should also say that I think that Sather's out of line with his comments though. I know it's business, but Avery hasn't been a detriment to this team (yet).

Sather is going to screw this up for the long term over a couple hundred thousand. Avery will swallow the "detriment to the team" insult, play like hell in his contract year, but he won't forget. Then he will sign with the team that offers the most next year when he is a UFA.

Now, he may have done that anyway, but any team loyalty to slats and the organization goes right down the drain. By making it "strictly business" Sather has destroyed any other reason to stay (short of winning the Cup and wanting to repeat) and it will be Avery's turn to make a strictly business decision next summer.

I don't care how the business end gets worked out all I know is I want Sean Avery here beyond this season. I know his past reputation, but Avery is hard nosed all or nothing kind of guy in a city that wants to win at all costs. He is the edge that team hasn't had in years and won't get from many of its European players.

Two things...
first I agree with Cuch's comments-I want him and he definetly provides and edge
second, though on my last two posts I said that he should grow up and take it like a man,basically. If the quote from Dubi's post is all that Sather said, I have to admit it was a little rough. How about; "he's an energetic player with a lot of upside, that still needs to be realized. His energy can both inspire the rest of the team butalso produces shorthanded stitautions for his team"

I will never be a 100% happy Ranger fan like I used to be until the Genius, either retires or is fired(don't worry I'm not holding my breath). Calling Avery a detriment when he saved your job and made you look smarter than you are is typical arrogance from you Slats! Shame on you!

Shame on Avery for taking the contents of the arbitration brieft public. Did he expect Slats to walk into the room with wine and flowers? It's arbitration, it's not supposed to be fun. Slats is doing whatever it takes to get the team he wants signed with the most wiggle room possible under the cap. Avery's airing his dirty laundry to try to garner public support is another example of how his big mouth can cause trouble (i.e. his threats prior to the Buffalo series). I like what he added to the team at the end of the season, and I'd like to see him back, but the team's improvement wasn't all on him, even if he'd like to believe it was. He's not worth $2.6m.

I hate to tell all you guys that Avery was a detriment to the team in the BUF series. He shot off his mouth about how he was going to be in everyones face and then you never heard his name called again. BUF knew he was hurt as soon as the game got underway. All he needed to do was keep his big mouth shut and distract the opponent DURING the game. Once they figured out he was all talk and no bite, he was ignored. The best strategy for an injured player is to simply keep quiet. Straka never said anything except he'll give it his best effort. Everybody knew what was wrong with him, but he never brought any attention to his injury. Hopefully, Avery may have learned something as a result of his first playoff series. (Note to Sean: Watch Essa Tikinin)

Avery should resign and prove that this year was not a fluke. Dont get me wrong he is a good player and I really want him back however he opened his big mouth againist Buffalo and did nothing to back it up. Did he even have a point? HE wants to be paided like a second line player prove in this year and you will get your money. PS Mike Peca and Wade Redden are waiting in the wings. Thats if you believe what you read and Hear.

Redden is making $6.5M, no room for him. Maybe I can start a rumor, eh? How 'bout Malik, Mara, Hossa, Straka and Valiquette for Redden and Gerber! That will be revenue neutral and allow us to sign Avery. I'm being sarcastic, just to let everybody know.

I think Peca will only be an option if Avery gets some crazy award. However, if Avery get a reasonable award and Hossa gets too much, Sather may opt to let Hossa go and sign Peca for $1.2M.

roc:

If we believed what we read and hear? Do you?

So far we've heard that we were about to sign just about every free agent (UFA and RFA) that was available this season. But we wound up with only two.

The agents always start rumors about the Rangers being interested in their clients just to bump up the price. Don't believe it for a second.

THere is room for Redden. If they were able to deal Malik and Mara and/or Kasper. They need a big time defenseman more then anything and we would be crazy to think we have a shot to win the cup with the defense crew we have now. I never said it would happen just saying what I have heard that what comment section is about right. THe Rangers a one defenseman away from being a Stanely Cup team. However this is just my opinion. What do you guys think?

I agree with the level-headed comments from Dubi, Laurie, and rangerbill94 ...

I wasn't an Avery fan before he became a Ranger and actually helped the team ... However, as Rangerbill have pointed out Avery, even in his short stay with the team did prove that he can be as much a help to our team as he can be a detriment to the team ... some of you people act like calling him that is this huge sin and insult ... gimme a break ...

Even worse are the people saying that they are only apart by a couple of 100K's ... that's not the case if the team is offering 1.3 and he is asking for 2.6 ... No one will tell me that he is more important or of greater value to our team than Mike Fisher is to the Senators, if that's one of the players he is being compared to as far as #'s ... if Fisher is making 1.5 then Avery should get around that to no more than 1.7 ...

I agree with Laurie that Avery is making these comments public to get the reaction that he is getting at this very moment from most of you ... sympathy at him and anger at Sather so that if he tanks and has a bad season then Sather can be blamed from bruising his ego, or if he has a great season to put pressure on Sather to attempt to extend his contract around the time he will work to extend Henrik's and avoid UFA or if it gets that far so that he(Avery) will have a ready-made excuse as to why he left us for another team, if it comes to that. Please after the crap that Avery has pulled on the teams he has been, specially L.A. you are telling me that being called a detriment in the area of penalties and perhaps running his mouth at the wrong time(Sabres series) that he is HURT? He needs to grow up

I'd call him a jerk to save $1.3mil ;-)

"I'd call him a jerk to save $1.3mil ;-)"

Heck, even worse to save that kind of money

Thank God the tide has turned.......arbitration as I understand is either the players number or the teams number...no compromise.

2.6 versus 1.3 means some mud slinging on one side and some exaggerated importance from the player..
like Imitation said above, call him a jerk ( which we all know he is anyway) give him his fat check and go play frickin hockey

B-LO It used to be one # or the other, not anymore as far as I've heard.

Mattie made some good points. Avery played the media well. Good analysis. He's in a win/win situation next year. Let's just hope it all works out well this week. That we have both Avery AND Hossa in the fold and go from there.

Personally, I want Hossa on the 1st line with Jagr. He finally showed something last year worthy of holding onto him. He has the hands to score - penalty shots plus given opportunities he hit the back of the net working with gifted linemates. Plus he gives the line some size and Jagr some space. Remember "Marcel's Better!" He's not, but this is the year we see his full potential - if he's on that top line. Let Hollweg do his thing on the 4th line. He's not going to give you more on another line. Hossa showed last year that he is capable of netting 20+ maybe more with Jagr and if he's healthy. It took Renney long enough but give him the chance. Camp is just weeks away! Can't take the Yanks anymore...

puluche:

"Hossa showed last year that he is capable of netting 20+ maybe more with Jagr and if he's healthy."

Oh? So getting 6 or 7 goals with the first line shows that he is capable of 20+?

Then Prucha's 30 goals in '06 shows that he's capable of getting 60+?

And Lundqvist's 30+ wins shows that he's capable of 60+?

I don't think so... you're only deemed capable of doing something that you've done already.

Come on, wishful thinking isn't reality. Hossa is no first line player. He'd get his usual 10 goals even playing LW with Gretzky and Kurri's line.

baron that last comment was stretching it a bit too far. any nhl player with decent hands could score with gretzky and kurri

does anyone know when an decision on avery will be released to the public?

They are gonna change this site to the "Hossa Bulletin" soon.

I see where puluche is going, after 2 years of floundering on the 3rd or 4th line and being a ten goal scorer, the guy plays with Jags and Nylander and preforms ( for a couple of weeks), scores some goals and maybe there's more to come.

there is no reality yet...this is July when we can dream that 7 million a year for scottie ( 13 goal) gomez makes sense

"does anyone know when an decision on avery will be released to the public?"

as soon as Avery can call the post and bitch about it if it goes against him?

=P

No one has yet mentioned that Slats has a history of being willing to cut ties with players who take the team to abritatrion, or otherwise and up in disputes. Dom Moore and Ortmeyer are two who were gone after taking their financial disagreements with the team to the league. Maybe he doesn't care one way or the other how Avery is feeling and maybe regardless of the arbitrator's decision he'll be gone next year -- not because of the award but because Slats doesn't tend to tolerate being challenged by players.

Just another perspective on it.

Baron - you're entitled to you're opinion. But I said give him a year, or at least the beginning of the year. He did show promise and if you didn't see it. I don't doubt it. Your response doesn't make much sense. In fact, it progressively made no sense at all.

B-LO and Michabenjamin - thanks, you're objective and sensible. And his impact on the 1st line wouldn't be just potential goal scoring - it's his size, forechecking, effort, and giving Jagr space which he showed all of which on the 1st line last year. Was it fleeting? Time will tell. He also has the bloodlines. One thing he has proved, however, was that his awaited potential was wasted on the 4th line. It's up to Renney, we'll see.

Re arbitration, I think in Hockey it always could be awarded at any amount in-between, unlike baseball where I believe it can only be the player # or team #

"Come on, wishful thinking isn't reality." baron 34

That's what I have been telling you about Immonen. Hossa is a good player, and he is a horse. He can handle first line minutes, and with any luck, he will

This is all arbitration BS. The Rangers have every right to wait and see on a long term deal with Avery. Will he continue to be effective and a good citizen through the new season? We'll see. If he does, he will get a longer term deal. I have no problem with the approach from either side.

Sean Avery brought an edge to the rangers that we havent seen in along time not to mention getting other players from the opposing team off their game a.k.a the Atlanta Thrashers

The Avery awaerd must be released no later then 48 hours after the Hossa decision.

once again i will echo the comments jagr and lundquist both made about avery.that is that avery was the missing piece needed to make the playoffs.

From an unconfirmed source, Michael Pecca is living back in New York and is talking with a New York team (not the islanders).

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