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March 22, 2007

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If this game had been played in that one-horse town Philadelphia, and Orr had been the one who was knocked unconscious, the godawful Sniders would STILL be showing the punch and the aftermath on their Jumbotron, to the happy, delighted roars of the most rancid following of any team in the NHL.

talafous good description..

they Rangers 4 forward lines appear to be really skating fast and hard.

4 on the road.. Hopefully Boston wins Thrusday along with NJ, Pitt, and Washington(Heres for hping)... The Rangers need to keep it oging and with some luck they will be in great shape.

Not to jinx things but this appears to be the exact opposite of what happened for the Rangers at the end of the season last yr...


I assume Straka will be back on Saturday hopefully the 5 days off will reinvigorate him.. I suggest Isbister sits out, put Straka back with Jagr and Nylander to start.... If they need some more physical presence even though he is small maybe move Callahan to the wing he seems to be good on the boards and loves to shoot.

Callahan and Girardi look like keepers for sure... Pock seems to be settling down....

Nothin' could be finer than beatin' Filadelfia in the Springtime! The Blueshirts have righted the ship and continue to play with abandon. Looks like all aspects of the team are coming around. And like was said repeatedly on this board, it's best to get your hot streak at the end of the season. (Watching the replay and Callahan just fed Shanahan in front . . . through Shanny's legs. St. Patty's Day II!)

Why didn't Prucha get at least one of the "Stars of the Game" for having the game winning goal?

OJC, too many stars after a 5-zip whitewash. I think it was important to get Shanny a star on his first game back. Avery was a human dynamo and Henke had the SO. Prucha did deserve a star but there were not enough to go around. and by the way did anyone notice Malik had a whale of a game?
After all the injuries I worried about the teams response. That has been put to bed. Now I worry about all the returning players and who stays in the line-up. Some people clearly have earned a spot but what does a GM do when Toots, Straka and Rachunek return? I guess that's a good problem but I sure don't have the answers.

One game left against philly, one against boston, got to get those four points.


Question: when tutin comes back, who's the odd man out, strudwick or pock?

I CAN SEE THE FUTURE STRAKA COMES BACK CALLY SITS,HOSSA COMES BACK IZZY SITS(THANK GOD) TYUTS COMES BACK POCK IS OUT,RACHUNEK GETS BACK WELL THAT 1 WILL BE INTERESTING.THE POINT IS THAT THEY GONNA BREAK APART SOMETHIGN THAT WORKS.CALLY WILL BE GONE BECUASE THEY WONT BENCH HOSSA OR STRAKA.THEY BENCH ORR OR HOLLWEG WE GET RUNNED OVER.SO IM GOING TO ENJOY THIS LAST GAME OPR TWO OF OUR TEAM LOOKING LIKE A CUP TEAM AND ILL SAY THIS WE GOING BE PRETTY GOOD NEXT SEASON

Seemed to me like Orr initiated that fight. I can understand why he did it, realizing that the Rangers wanted to make a "statement" based on the last Flyers game here. But I think it was compete waste of time, and watching 2 goons fight each other offers nothing to what was otherwise a great Rangers performance against a weak team.

Hockey fans have to figure out what they want - fighting or no fighting. You can't have a fight where people are cheering like mad, UNTIL the guy gets hurt. You can't want people to punch each other in the face, and then get a sick feeling your stomach (and go eerily silent) when you realize the guy gets hurt.

And notice, people, how the fighting didn't stop Eager from running around. Goons fighting goons does nothing to people from playing beyond the rules, and taking physical liberties against people. And it sure won't stop Fedoruk the NEXT game - cause now he has a motive to go out and prove his toughness. So what, then, does fighting offer? What did it offer in last night's game? Nothing except cheap entertainment for fans who don't want to accept the full responsibilities and possibilities of what fighting brings.

fighting serves its purpose because the refs allows Eager to run around the rink and don't call a penalty when he kicks prucha feet out, hits girardi when the puck is a mile away, and boards strudwick...or when hatcher rams nylanders face against the boards..if the refs are going to let these things go then guys like ORR must be dressed and protect there teammates...
Fighting always has and always will have a place in the game and has scaled down dramatically since the bench clearing brawls of the 80's....And the ice did open up tremendously after the ORR fight...

Gregg:

Unfortunately, you are missing the true point - fighting serves NO purpose BECAUSE the refs let people like Eager run around and do what he does. How did Orr protect his teammates from that? By hitting the Flyers' goon? Ok, so Orr then went after Eager - and they got their 5 minute penalities and then Eager came back and CONTINUED to run guys.

If the NHL wants to stop guys from taking liberties with its players (whether star or otherwise), it has to do two things:

(1) severely penalize guys when they do it - whether on the ice or through suspensions, and
(2) take guys like Orr and Fedoruk and Jannsen out of the league. Get rid of fighting, and 95% percent of the goons disappear - leaving only the people like Simon and Eager and Avery and Hatcher to deal with when they cross the line.

The NHL and its fans have to accept fighting for what it is - cheap entertainment for its fans. It has absolutely zero deterrent value.

hey i think Orr earned his money last night, whos to say Fedoruk wouldnt have run Jagr and injure him sometime during the game. He would have been taking runs all game, especially during garbage time when they had no chance of winning the game, also why is it that the players themsleves know that fighting is in fact a deterrent and respect those players who play that role, and some people just think they know what there talking about and say it isn't, beleive meee when players watch video and see what orr can do with one punch players will think twice when they play the rangers-i am 100% for fighting in the NHL and would be very upset if that part of the game was taken out, weve already lost so much of what makes hockey so great

maybe some people should just watch the NBA and stay away from our great game of hockey. hey if u cant handle the rough stuff, then maybe hockey isnt for you.

You can ask any hockey purist, and they will tell you hockey abslutely serves it's a purpose. It is a physical game, and fighting is a part of it. If you don't have fighting, what does a player like nylander do when Hatcher whales his head into the boards? Without fighting, then Nylander pulls a Chris Simon and whacks him with this stick. Orr's off the world serve a purpose, they protect there teammates. You can never 100% deter, but this game was much different than the last time these 2 teams met, so to say that ORR fighting Federouk wasn't a deterent is not accurate.

Gregg:

"If you don't have fighting, what does a player like nylander do when Hatcher whales his head into the boards? Without fighting, then Nylander pulls a Chris Simon and whacks him with this stick. Orr's off the world serve a purpose, they protect there teammates."

Hatcher wasn't stopped. Isn't that my point? There was no penalty called. No one went after Hatcher to fight him. No one Simon-ized him. So, what good did fighting do to prevent his impermissible actions? Orr's fight with Fedoruk didn't stop Hatcher at all. I just don't understand the deterrent argument, and at the risk of being called a wimp, I'll leave it there.

My point remains - the NHL is missing an opportunity to improve the game by prohibiting fighting, policing players by enforcing the rules, and removing the need for teams to carry goons to police themselves.

NO FIGHTS IN HOCKEY MEANS ATLEAST 50% OF FANS WILL STOP WATCHING AND ATTENDING AND IF U TAKE AWAY ALL THE ROUGHING STUFF 75% OF FANS WILL DROP HOCKEY SO LIKE FISHSTICKS GUY SAID IF U CANT HANDLE FIGHTS AND HITS U SHOULD BE WATCHING KNICKS AND YANKEES/METS

You carefully omitted the following sentence in my post..
"You can never 100% deter, but this game was much different than the last time these 2 teams met, so to say that ORR fighting Federouk wasn't a deterent is not accurate".

The ICE clearly opened up and the game settled down after the ORR fights of federouk and Eager. The NHL tried in there last batch of rule changes to remove the needs for Enforcers, but in a physical game like hockey, enforcers will always have there role...Body work and physical play sets the tone for a game and integral part of the game. The more the NHL tries to eliminate this part of the game, the worse they will make it.

I've really been excited about the Ranger play of late. Actually it was like rooting for two different Ranger teams for the season.

Gone are the two Ward's, Ozolinish, Kasper and Hall. added are Avery, Girardi, Callahan, Pock and Strudwick. The changes have made the Rangers quite a different team, definitely for the better.

Only thing I don't like is Strudwick in place of Liffton. Liffton add a brand of toughness that is equal to Orr. If Orr would have had a third fight last night, he would have been automatically out of the game. If that happened, their one enforcer would not have been in there to look after our guys, that's why a Liffton is important. He's just as good as Strudwick with the added ability to handle himself. In Strudwick's defense he was always willing to drop the gloves but lost more fights than he won.

As far as injured players, whoever comes back first up front, Straka or Shanahan, should knock the useless Isbister out of there. Just loved Rosen's shilling for Isbister saying he's not scoring but his size definitely helps the line. Rosen's credibility just keeps taking hit after hit.

When the second guy comes back, I suggest rotating the following players on the 4th line, Hollweg, Ortmeyer, Betts and Orr. If the Rangers play a big hitting team like the Flyers, Ortmeyer should be out. OTOH, if it's a speedy team like Buffalo, Orr should be out. Hollweg can center some games giving Betts a night off. The 4th line hits the most so a day off using this rotating system would be welcomed.

On defense, first guy to come back, Ruchunek or Tyutin, should replace Strudwick, second guy replaces Pock, although I'd prefer it to be Malik. Mara and Ruchunek have played well together the limited time they have been together. Hopefully they can find that magic again.

Interesting point made on the post-game radio broadcast - Dave Maloney said that someone (I believe Renney) was talking to him about the late season swoon from last year because of all the individual accolades players were going for (Jagr's goal scoring and points records, Prucha's pursuit of the rookie goal record, Henny's victory total, etc.) This year, nobody's in sight of any record, they can all just concentrate on winning hockey games, and thankfully they have been doing so lately. By the way, how about the kids? Girardi has been solidly unspectacular - which is exactly what you want out of a young defenseman. Make the smart play all the time. Callahan has a little grit to him - and he LIKES TO SHOOT THE PUCK! Gotta love that. Sean Avery - if he were here all year - my Steven McDonald Award winner no question - although for strictly sentimental purposes, I'd go with Ortmeyer. The man came back from a career threatening situation, and has been all energy since his return. Now, take care of business in Beantown and the Nassau Mausoleum this weekend - every point is huge, I don't care if it's the Bruins, Islanders, or the Sisters of the Poor.

Interesting discussion on fighting, and I think both Gregg and saget make valid points. I happen to come down on the side that says that fighting is part and parcel of the culture of the game. Saget says: "You can't have a fight where people are cheering like mad, UNTIL the guy gets hurt." But what's the difference between that and cheering like mad when your guy is running around smashing the opponent into boards, or blindsiding him in the open ice as hard as he can UNTIL the guy gets hurt? It's a rough game - basically a war game as I heard Fischler say last week - and fighting is a way for a team to establish that it won't be unduly kicked around. It may not have stopped Eager last night, but how many times in the past did we see Ranger teams pushed around with no one to stand up for his teammates?...and how many of those teams won Cups? How many Cups would the Icelanders have won if Clark Gillies didn't kick the shit out of Terry O'Reilly in 1980?

Also wanted to add that it was the Flyers who sent Fedoruk out on the ice, so I don't think it's fair to say that Orr started the fight. And that Fedoruk indeed has a glass jaw. Holmgren said in the Philly paper that he has a face of titanium, from the plate that was put there when he had his orbital bone broken earlier this year. (So I guess that means it's really a titanium jaw!)

Can't sit Orr against Buffalo, Andrew Peters is first in the league in fighting majors, 1 ahead of Colton Orr. Gotta love Colton Orr, need him for the big run like in 94 when we had Kocur. Anaheim is going to be in the finals and they have the most fighters on one team, in fact, they dumped Fedoruk to the Flyers due to surplus.
Let's remember Fedoruks run/elbow/unpenalized play against Jag when the two teams last met.
Isbister must sit for Hossa or Straka. Not sure who sits when there both back. Same with Tyutin and Rachunek, Strud will sit, after that, its likely Pock who has played extremely well. I like the point about Liffiton earlier, he could very well be the crease clearing hard hitting defensemen this frachise hasn't seen since Beukeboom.

I agree with the comment about Liffiton being the crease clearing D man.

They have not had one that I recall since Beukeboom..

I think Liffiton can play and he is tough...Strudwick is the 1st D to sit...

Isbister 1st forward to sit, after that it get's harder.. From what I have read Hossa is not near being back....

Don't try to fix something that ain't broke...

This team is playing better than it has all year - in a large part due to the injury replacements.

When the injured guys come back they should not be inserted immediately - they should get conditioning assignments in Hartford, and then wait until one of the replacements struggles (or another injury occurs).

Nothing wrong with having a squad of "black aces" like we did in '94.

Straka is too injured hes not prducing anything they should let him fix his shoulder now so he can eb ready by next season.Cally doing a wonderful job and i hope he wont get benched.Wel see saturday if Rennet is a retard or a smart coach.If he benches cally and plays isbister than hes in fact a retard and if hel do the opposite ill have to agree that he became wiser.

Tough to call Renney a retard when you can't spell his name. Use spell check. It works.

In regards to fighting, one arguement is that in the playoffs, fighting disappears and playoff hockey is the best hockey at any time of the year.

Would players like Hatcher keep taking runs at players if they got called for late hits, elbows, and charging? One person who wouldn't put up with it is his coach b/c he's always putting his team short handed.

People say if you don't have fighting, there's no physical play (what? you can't check?) and that there's no deterent. Isn't that what the ref's are there for? Why not do what the NFL does? no head shots, illegal contact to the head. Why couldn't that work here? Could also do so that if it's a penalty, it's a full two minutes and score as many goals as you can.

Forgot who said it, but if the ref's called the penalties, and particularly head shots, and the NHLPA spoke to it's members about it, do we really think it wouldn't deter?

We should want the casual fan to see Crosby, Ovechkin, and others and get excited about that as hockey, not Orr's fight.

hockey isn't attracting fans (more people watch bowling on tv than hockey in the states). The only time people watched was in the olympics where it highlighted speed and skill. Otherwise, it will always be below bowling? strongest man competitioin? Super retriever seriers? bass fishing? And we can keep searching for it on OLN? VS? The foodnet work? You get the idea

scinoc i use spell check when im being graded in school this is a bulletin plus u still understood what i said so try to be a smart ass somewhere else

Don't pay attention to him ant. He's done that to me also. Love to see a hockey post from him sometime.

alright.He probably dont even know what this bulletin is about

Those who like hockey but don't have the stomach for fighting have their game, women's hockey. If the NHL wants to self-destruct, they can ban hockey, and a new WHA will quickly form and take the fans. Ruutu felt he could run Jagr through the boards at the Olympics because no one could do anything about it. That's the kind of disgusting thing which would become common without a deterrent. The first time Hatcher saw Crosby he knocked out his teeth. After that the Pens brought in Cairns and now Laraque. You can ban fighting but the likes of Hatcher and Ruutu will still be there.

Hockey is a hard game. Hard ice. Hard puck. Hard boards. Hard goalposts, sticks, glass, skates, etc., etc. (Hard-headed fans, too.) What is particularly hard is garnering a team reputation for working hard and sticking together. So when Orr KOs Fedoruk, it says that the Rangers stick up for one another. It says that we are not going to put up with this crap. Even Renney's acknowledgement that he should have had Orr in the game the last time the teams met speaks volumes. That mea culpa even allows Renney to be a part of our growing team unity.

So when Shanahan takes on Brashear at center ice, it's a statement that we're a team and we're in this for the long haul. This is hockey. The players need an outlet for their frustations. Fighting is the only answer. And as for fighting not being a deterrent: look, those Flyer goons are just that. Goons. You will never stop the Flyers from being the Broad Street Bullies. The best you can do is to contain their miscreant behavior. And that's what the Rangers did. They contained the Filadelfians' boorishness.

Big difference between the star players of today vs the star players back in the 40's and 50's is, the star players back then, Gordie Howe, Andy Bathgate, Bobby Hull, were exceptional fighters and took care of themselves.

Hit Gordie inappropriately and he would note your number. Eventually, that player would find himself on the ice and would never bother Gordie again.

I'm tired of this fighting argument. It is part of the game, and it will stay a part of the game. Even if you 'ban' it, there will still be fights because of the nature of the game. Fighting keeps the game honest. It is part of the reason there are no jerks in hockey. Go ahead...be a jerk...you'll have to answer the call at some point.

I am more upset that the NHL keeps trying to run from it's roots. Be proud of your sport and stop trying to hide certain aspects. Guys get knocked out like that every night in the UFC and that sport is gaining viewers everyday. I'm not to say that fighting will gain us viewers, but trying to hide it and remove it doesn't work either. Even a fake sport like Wrestling did a lot better when it admitted (and promoted) what it was all about. It stopped the cherade and the "sport" exploded.

They're not gonna gain any viewers by changing the roots of the game. They tried to change the game and get rid of it as much as possible. They removed the 'hotspots' (as Bettman called them). What was the result? Not a lot of new fans and the current fans complaining of passion-less hockey. Oh yea, and the US media still only mentioned hockey when the 'incidents' happened.

They already have a game where there is no hitting and no fighting. It is called basketball....and it's horrible.

Reading everything it dawned on me that we would not be having this conversation had Orr not scored a knock out. Just an observation.

I know we have to earn it, but did NJ and Pitt both have to lose to teams with worse records, and on the same night both the Bruins and Caps blow leads and lose...
Well its still in our hands, especially if we can take 3 or 4 points in each pair vs NYI and Montreal

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