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February 20, 2007

Comments

I have a better solution than any points since it seems to work just fine in every other sport. How about just wins and losses counting and forget all this OT points. To me, "a win is a win is a win" ...props to Gertrude Stein for allowing the use of her poetry in this forum and on the converse a loss is still a loss regardless of how you get there. Look at how the standings would look if OT losses were added as losses...

TEAM W L PCT GB
BUF 39 20 .661 -
NJ 36 23 .610 3
OTT 34 25 .576 5
TB 33 27 .550 6.5
PIT 32 27 .542 7
ATL 30 31 .4918 10
CAR 30 31 .4918 10
MON 30 31 .4918 10

- On The Outside looking in -

NYR 29 30 .4915 10
TOR 29 30 .4915 10
NYI 29 31 .483 10.5
BOS 28 30 .482 10.5
WAS 23 36 .389 16
FLA 23 37 .383 16.5
PHI 16 43 .271 23

How much better would that be? Then every single win and loss has the same weight and it affects your conference standing meaning you'd better win. Personally I just don't believe that some wins are worth more than others. Like I said, a win is a win and a loss is a loss no matter how you got there. To me OT and the shoot-out are just a manner of determining a winner for the game and that's all. As we all know, some teams just play to get to OT to get a point. This would eliminate that because you don't gain anything extra from it.

As for any other news, I attended the Wolf Pack Tip - A - Player dinner last night and I have to tell you for the record that I have never spoken to a more hungry person to get to the NHL level and specifically to play for the Blueshirts than Ivan Baranka. I also happen to think of the guys on Defense that are in Hartford now there certainly isn't a player more deserving. When Ivan is on, there is hardly a guy in the league that can keep up with him. What the team is looking for from him is a bit more consistency which I think he will offer when he's given his shot. I heard some fascinating talk from a number of players and coaches and I am convinced that this team will go VERY deep into the play-offs and could contend for the Calder Cup.

Anyhow, enough for now...catch you all later on...

Mitch, can we just go back to tie games? It worked for about 80 years. LOL

It would never fly because you're talking fractions and math, but here goes:

Before the 'ot point' NHL games always awarded two points to someone, whether it be a win for 2 or 1 each for a tie. These days you have either 3 points or 2 points awarded for any given game, which throws things off (atlanta is a .566 team? when they lost 9 in ot/shootouts making their overall 30-31? Don't think so). Make it only two points awarded in any game. 2 points for regulation or ot win, 1.5 points for shootout win, 0.5 points for shootout loss. This makes 100 points in a season mean something again.

Ivan, the simpler solution is to have each game worth three points. Three for a win, 2 for an OT win, and 1 for an OT loss. And I believe the GMs are considering that system, its used in soccer and works pretty well.

BTW, here is how it would look in the West

Here’s how it would look in the West (notice the big Changes)

TEAM W L PCT GB
NSH 40 21 .666 -
DET 38 22 .633 1.5
SJ 36 23 .610 2.5
DAL 35 23 .603 3.5
ANA 35 25 .583 4.5
VAN 34 25 .576 5
MIN 32 27 .542 7
CGY 31 28 .525 8

- On the outside looking in –

EDM 28 31 .474 11
CLR 28 31 .474 11
STL 25 35 .416 14.5
PHX 25 35 .416 14.5
COL 23 36 .389 16
CHI 22 37 .372 17
LAK 20 41 .327 20

BOB,

If you're trying to sel la game to Americans this is how the other three major sports do it and nobody has a problem with it...

IVAN,

There's no math involved and the half games represent games in hand it's a lot easier and far more direct...

I actually like the W-L system suggested by Mitch over what they have now- just feel like there should be more value in games not decided by shootout. While the 3 point system is along the same lines of what I suggested, you take away that 100 point number that defines a good team in the standings. But then again, who in charge cares about league tradition?

The shootout is here to stay, but as Howie Rose said in a recent Isles game after the buzzer sounded in ot, "let's play another 20 minutes of ot!"

Good points, Mitch. They don't award a point for getting to the ninth inning tied, nor an extra to the winner. But that "games back"—sometimes with fractionals—always confuses me in the summer. HOW is a team a half a game back? (Just a rhetorical question, because baseball's not my sport and I keep rereading your post to try to get it to sink in.)

Is it too much to ask that they play full OT periods until someone wins, a la playoffs? Lose the skills contest altogether.

Having said that, I prefer the three-point system, which purists may hate because it would wreak havoc when comparing current teams to those already in the record books, but oh well.

SOMEthing ought to be done and when it is, then I'll learn it :-)

Hard to believe there's nostalgia bubbling up from the swamp. (But I wouldn't know as I've never spent a nickel in that building...)

atleast 1 good news Gionta is out

The GB in baseball is kinda stupid, the fractional game behind is the same as a game in hand in hockey. Its like, if you had two teams with 20 wins, and one had played one less game, they would both have 40 points, but one would be ahead of the other in the standings.

for once I agree with Mitch. there should be NO points, just wins and losses.

it is outrageous that Anaheim has gained a lead over the Sharks by LOSING games in OT. the Ducks have a division lead and 2nd seed thanks to LOSING games in extra session. that is ridiculous.

as for tradition, that is really ridiculous. when the players take off their helmets, and the goalies take off their masks, and they go back to wood sticks and one ref, and etc. etc.

give me a break. if you want to simplify things, and get more casual sports fans interested in hockey, and yes, also the casual sports editors who now ignore hockey, then you go to just wins and losses period.

even the guys on versus last night, Clement and Jones and Engblom, all long time NHL players and broadcasters, all agreed that the wins and losses system is the best way to go.

Mitch, here's my take on it..

I just can’t see awarding a team points when they lose. I’d rather see the following:

2 points for a reg win or OT win
1 point for a shootout win
0 points for reg, OT and shootout loss.

Why? If the teams know that they will finish the OT in a tie, the team that wins the shootout will lose a point compared to an OT win, while the team losing the shootout gets a loss of 2 points.

You’ll see much better OT hockey with that setup. Also a team isn’t rewarded for losing.

Mitch -

I totally agree. Teams shouldn't get points for losing no matter what. That way everyone plays for the win all the time. If your team stinks at shootouts, then you better win in regulation or OT, or trade for great breakaway guy.

That was an awesome post Mitch. Couldn't agree more.

it won't work Lenny. teams like Minn. will do what they do now. play the OT like a trap, hold on till the shootout, and then win it because they have guys who are great at the shootout. they would rather get 1 pt. than risk none by opening up offensively in OT and risk getting none.

Baseball and basketball and football don't give points, or any credit of any kind, for extra session losses, and neither should hockey.

Joe,

Since I was at a function last night I didn't hear what the boys at VS said, but I am glad that they agree with me. It shows that there is hope for mankind afterall :)

Andrea,

As Thordic stated to you half games signify games in hand. Here's an example

TEAM A has a record of 7-1
TEAM B has a record of 6-2

TEAM A's record is +6
TEAM B's Record is +4

So in order for both teams to be tied at .500 you'd split the differential in half 6-4 is 2 and half of that is 1. So if TEAM A lost 1 game and TEAM B won one they'd have identical records and be tied.

On the other hand using the same scenario TEAM A plays an extra game and Wins and would be 8-1 while Team B had the night off and is still 6 & 2. Therefor you'd have TEAM A at plus 7 and TEAM B at plus 4 you just take half of the difference and you'd have a 1.5 difference. At the end of the season there are no half games but you see that any half games during the season really just differentiates the games in hand.

Hopefully this makes sense to you...if not email me and I can explain it a little better but this should suffice...

Is it December 5th already? I didn't think it was my birthday so soon...Either that or I am really secretly dead and don't know it yet to have so many people agreeing with me. I'm so not used to that. (Chills)

I just got off the phone with our old friend and former Ranger, Mike Hudson who said to wish everyone well.

My prediction for tonight (said in my best Mr. T circa Rocky III impression) "PAIN"

I've been on a prediction roll lately and I am going with the boys in blue to respond with a 4-2 win. It will be a one goal game with the Rangers getting an open-netter at the end.

Mitch your birthday gift from me is a suprise....nothing!! :))))

Thanks for the simplifying it for me, Mitch. I'll print it out until it sinks in (where DO the brain cells go!?!) My baseball-fan friends will appreciate my understanding it, too!

Just wondering: Do any of you people who post here ever get together before, during or after home games to bat the breeze?

And I hope that it's Cullen or Prucha on a pretty rush beating that snot-nose Gomez for the game-winner! His team NEEDS the Rangers to do well or there IS no local coverage of the Debbies. Couldn't THEY have moved to KC?

Ok, back to the good karma and happy shiny thoughts: 4-2 NYR, with a Hollweg EN.

Andrea, only kidding about back peddling to tie games.

unfortunately, Mitch, the GMs meeting now in FLa. are discussing only the 3 pts. for a reg. win, change.

they are not even discussing going to a wins and losses system. and that shows how hockey continues to survive despite those who run it.

It scars me to read that Sather is seeking veteran help for the Rangers. What promising prospect or young veteran will he trade for a has-been or never-was who happens to be big or takes senseless penalties. The Rangers have no chance in the playoffs. They should be seeking prospects for veterans not the reverse.

So why can't the Europhobic GMs assembled turn their attention to ridding the arenas of that "Olé Olé" bull$h!t soccer song? Thank you.

Imagine the Rangers having D-Men who would put more pucks in the oppositions net than their own. What a concept, eh?

Kinda makes you miss Kaspar, eh?

BTW Andrea, I couldn't agree more with you about that retarded song. It sounds like something from a bullfight...

Kaspar at least wasn't afraid to hit people. We should have tried to get Pronger or someone of his caliber but no all we want are wingers past their prime who come here and bust. The only exception to that is Shanny...

Rachunek...released.

Period. trade or release him.

He played himself off the team. not just with the goal, but his overall play. letting havlat get behind him too...awful. awful. even micheletti picked up on it against the chicago havlats...

When you're a d-man- to me, having played, ideally, you want to stick your body in front of the shot. it was a rebound, wide angle. You either want to
1. go to his body, disrupt him , get in the way
2. take a swing at the puck- you either sweep it away or whiff- either way it's not going in
3. charge at him with a stick if you can't get your body there, charge, flail, reach, swat with your stick.

it happens in a split second, but you can't can't can't put your stick on the line in order to have a shot deflect in. it's just inexcusable.
you could coddle the guy and say 'it's ok, carol.'

but you know what- i'm tired of losing to this team. i'm tired of that stupid god forsaken building (good riddance). i'm tired of jagr being shut down like he's nothing against this team. but bottom line- it comes down to mental toughness. we neeeeeeeever eeeeeeever display mental toughness (which is needed against that team) for 60 minutes. never. sometimes we've gotten away with it and won still. it's plays like rachunek's that separate our team from theirs. and between he and aaron ward staring at the ice chips, it took a great stop by king just to give rachunek the opportunity to screw up.

mental toughness.

you don't have it...go home

Sather! If the price is high now, SELL! Rachunek would be a good start, if anyone wants a defenseman who scores into his own net.

Just a take on points... The game was fine before Bettman got his hands on it. Ties were always very important and impacted the standings more than you would know. Also had an impact on tiebreakers.. Bettman has RUINED this game. Shootouts are a gimmick and when you have to supply a gimmick to sell your game you are in a whole lot of trouble. I'll be back laterto give my thoughts on #23....Z

First off, Andrea I've thought about having a pool party with beer and barbaque and possibly a few surprise guests this summer at my home here in Connecticut for Blueshirt subscribers. I think the idea of all of us getting together once in a while might be a nice thing to do. Although it could get dangerous as testy as some of these discussions get although I think without the security blanket of sitting at a computer with a screenname things would probably be a lot more civil.

On to tonight's "game" if you can call it that. I think the refs had a lot of say in what went on. How did Marty in his "fight" with Avery NOT get a diving penalty? How did Avery not draw a cross check penalty of what turned out to be the winning goal? How did Karel Rachunek make this team in the first place while Ivan Baranka sits in Hartford?

For those of you pining for Kasper, I can give you a little update since I just saw him yesterday. He's still got lingering affects from his injuries over the summer and I can tell you that while he is without a doubt one of the coolest people I've ever had the good fortune to meet, he's not even playing well at the AHL level.

On another front, with this loss I would expect that the Rangers are going to be sellers at the trade deadline. If I were guessing right now, and that is al lI would be doing, I would expect Nylander to be traded, possibly Rachunek, although what would we get back for him? I think Ward might go and depending upon his health Kevin Weekes. I know we're only three points out but we are running out of time and just not getting it done. This coming from a guy who just spent $800 with MSG today for first round play-off tickets that at this point I won't get to use.

Many of you know that I am an optimist when it comes to the boys, but I am also a realist and if you read my article a month or two ago in BB:The Magazine I told you then that this team would struggle to get to 500 and based upon what I showed you earlier today, they are currently 2 games below even. This team has a LOT of holes that need to be fixed and it isn't happening for them this year.

Lastly, my suggestion of just going to a straight won-loss record would make too much sense and that is why it doesn't make the cut.

Mitch, I'm definitely subscribing next month when I return East. How could I turn down beer and barbecue this summer.

I wouldn't worry about any danger from everybody. I've organized reunions since 2000 for our old NYT hockey board (ask Jess). Also had 2 paving stones on MSG entrance dedicated to two members who died in 2001. I got contributions from people who never met me before. It was gratifying to get that kind of response. Collected over $1,000. People will suprise you positively when you finally meet them in person. Hope you invite Rodent and Bird, I would get a real chuckle meeting them in person.

Observations as I just got home from the game:
1. Rachunek and Ward are NOT defensive stoppers.
2. Not sure how you can beat the Devils when A. you come out flat B. the referees let everything go that has been called against the Rangers all season.
3. Colton is a true heavyweight. Like it or not, he defeated a divison rivals best fighter. Still think he wouldn't have helped against Philly at home!??!
4. How is it that every coach who comes to the Devils ends up playing the same style as old LOUIE.
5. At least 40% Ranger fans who were afraid to chant until the team tied it up.
6. Avery is a building block. Imagine Staal, Saguinetti, Sauer, Baranka, Tyutin and Girardi on defense, WOW! besides all the other possible talents..
7. Thursday's game is a must win without a doubt, we need the confidence.
8. How could you not dominate them without Elias or Gionta???
9. This one hurts pretty bad as did the Redwings game, some just worse then others..

Scott, we also need some big boppers back on D. All our young guys are puck movers and offensive minded defenseman. Remember how Beukeboom made a difference in Ranger toughness, until he got a concussion?

Well Rachunek just became Ozo.U cant say he cost us the game tho we played like garbage.I just came home from the game and devils are fans are by far the biggest idiots i have ever seen

what a flop by brodeur...nothing is called against avery. gotta love it

Andrea

I can't believe I am having to ask you to watch your potty mouth PLEASE (and serious too no joking but we do have kids coming here)

All

If you think you expect the Rangers to raise a white flag and become sellers think again.

Reason one: MONEY MONEY MONEY as there is no way Junior allows the Rangers to give any impression that they believe the season is over. After all Junior wants his ticket increase next season and who on the Rangers will tell him it isn't happening.

Mitch and those interested:

I can and will vouch for Lenny and his party planning skills. Ignore his pink pants and white gloves (I won't begin to describe his red nose and earrings), Lenny has done all that he did say. In fact a previous owner of the Blueshirt Bulletin had Lenny write an article about his efforts to raise funds for the paving stones.

Lenny has repeatedly organized pre-game meetings over the last few years and they turned out to be the highlight of those dismal seasons.

Scott

Avery will were out his welcome soon enough and he is the last player I want to use as a building block. Think responsibly about who should be the Ranger future leaders. I for one think there are plenty of future leaders both in Hartford, in the CHL and even a few in the NCAAs.

A building block starts when you have people who bond with each other, and here is a little known secret. Perhaps the best move the Rangers ever did was the creation of the developmental camps.

More than anything else, it has helped to create bonds among the prospects as many became friends off the ice. I call it the Messier effect as the team building excerises that Renney used at the end of the training camp, the kids having bar-b-ques and attending Met/Yank games will pay dividends down the road.

THe future Ranger leaders are going to be Staal (Captain everywhere he has been), Dupont (nicknamed MOOSE just like Messier), Pyatt (quiet but leads by example), Russell (Prucha clone with an ATTITUDE) and Dubinsky, Dawes, Callahan and Dylan Reese (of Harvard)

Jess if this would be the team i dont think wel make far.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE TICKETS FOR SALE FOR 2/22??????

Sather will just trade those building blocks to get into the playoffs.

Sorry Im late, just got home and had to watch the game on the DVR. I hope some of you were able to read my last post under the previous article, we have seriously over populated our prospect system and roster trying to find the next leetch. 5 of our 6 D that usually start are not physical and are puck movers, that said this leads me to the rant about tonight's game. First, nothing upsets me more than lack of support for teammates, a scrum in front of the devs net results in 5 devs and only 3 rangers, there should not be a player on the ice NOT involved in a scrum, but I guess the ranger D do not want to skate all the way from the blue line to the devs goal crease to become involved. No way should this happen. The avery induced scrum, it was a good one, finally got everyone involved (everyone should ALWAYS be involved). The own goal(might have went in off of henrik anyhow, but ouch rachunek has to feel like the second coming of ozo now) should not have happened if the d was physical. Both ward and rachunek should have put their guys on the ice and no one would have been able to sweep the puck back towards the net and henrik would have had time to recover. The rangers needed to split this home and home with the devs to still have a decent chance at the post season. That is still possible even if they do get swept by NJ they have a lot of games left against teams directly above them in the standings. But a split would really be nice. We really need to get more physical on the back line. Again, sorry this is so late, but life in the mountains.

Thanks

Jess you're spot on about this team being buyers at the deadline not sellers. Junior wants to make the playoffs so he can fulfill his promise to raise ticket prices pure and simple.

Finally I have a suggestion for Glenn Sather. After he leaves FLA and heads to Edmonton for the Messier event he should just stay there. I don't care if he continues to collect juniors money, I just want him out of NY.

Jess,
I like the players you mention, especially for their characteristics.. It's just that I feel that they are in fact a playoff caliber team as CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED. We all know the issues that need changing, its just that they wait to long to take out the broken parts(i.e. Rachunek and Ward; previously Ozo, Hall etc).
The future looks bright, but I want into the playoffs, however, not at the cost of any real prospects.
This team needs hard nosed players and I personally think Avery may be able to round into a solid one, its nice to see some skill and grit. Hopefully he and his teammates will form a bond.
In addition, I'd rather have a fresh old Leetch, then Rachunek any day of the week.

Mitch, getting back to your discussion of the W-L system, which I support and have advocated just as much as you have, look at the Pacific division for the best proof of our point.

the Sharks have 36 wins in 59 games

the Ducks have 35 wins in 61 games.

but the Ducks have a 7 point lead, and a #2 seed because they have LOST 10 times after regulation.

if that is not unfair, wrong and stupid, then I don't know what is.

the Sharks could end up 3rd in their division, and the 8th seed, with more wins than the 2 div. teams ahead of them and the other teams like Calgary and Minn., simply because they don't take games to OT and then lose like the other teams do.

they could end up with the #8 seed instead of #2 or #3, simply because other teams are sitting back in the 3rd period, and then losing after regulation.

they should forget the point system and go by wins and losses period.

Watching this game made me glad I'm not a Devils fan. This game was just annoying to watch due to the slow play on both sides. Do the Devils put something on the ice to make it look like everyone is playing in slow motion?

My thought for the fairest way to sort teams out with the current OT/ShootOut system would never fly, because it does involve math. But I think it would be best way to separate teams.
Winning percentage.
As in points earned by the team as a percent of points earned by team and opponent combined in the team's games.
In that model, a regulation win earns a team 2 of 2, an OT/SO win is 2 of 3, an OT/SO loss is 1 of 3, and a regulation loss is 0 of 2.
AND at the end of the season all the team's percentages add up to 1.000
Not the crazy situation now where 2/3's of the league is "over .500"

Going to OT should hurt the winner compared to winning in regulation.
OT records are not in the papers, so I cant post what the current standings would look like without doing some research.

The shootout is a gimmick --- pure and simply. Nothing more, nothing less. I know sports is suppose to be an entertainment business, but gimmicky should be a no-no. Doubt the NHL could/would get rid of the shootout now, but it should. Ditto for OT. The game survived for decades without OT and SO, especially the SO, and was doing fine. Cracking down on obstruction penalties --- on most teams --- has helped the game, but the stupidity of OT and SO again demonstrates why the NHL is sometimes referred to as the Nonsense Hockey League. A sad but true commentary.

Jess, Dubi, fans, my apologies for the vulgarity. I probably shouldn't post during a game—too emotional. Won't happen again!

It was awful watching that NJ broadcast (TW Manhattan blocks MSG2 if FSNY has the game on.) Makes it a Devils game, not a Ranger game. Emrick is a really smart man, but when he calls the game, he sounds like an announcer at Churchill Downs. And Resch, while he said some nice things about Jagr, Lundqvist, Avery, Hollweg and is maybe less of a homer than some, his voice just sounds whiny. I can't STAND NJD broadcasts. Argh.

Excuse me while I avoid reading today's papers and get back to work.

just to follow thru, I found the OT totals to flesh out my idea
its pretty simple Points earned/[(2xGames played) + OT-games-played]
It take sinto account BOTH points earned and points 'allowed' to opponents
I think does accurately show who is toughest to play against

This listing shows which teams win the most points in the games they play:
Tm GP OT Pts Points at Stake Winning' %
BUF 60 19 85 139 0.6115
NJD 60 15 80 135 0.5926
OTT 60 7 73 127 0.5748
PIT 59 18 73 136 0.5368
TBL 61 14 71 136 0.5221
TOR 60 12 66 132 0.5000
MON 62 12 68 136 0.5000
CAR 62 10 67 134 0.5000
ATL 62 19 71 143 0.4965
NYI 60 14 66 134 0.4925
NYR 60 12 63 132 0.4773
BOS 59 16 62 134 0.4627
FLA 61 13 58 135 0.4296
WAS 60 14 55 134 0.4104
PHI 60 10 40 130 0.3077

Tm GP OT Pts Points at Stake Winning' %
DET 60 9 82 129 0.6357
NAS 61 9 83 131 0.6336
SJS 59 2 73 120 0.6083
ANA 61 16 80 138 0.5797
DAL 59 11 73 129 0.5659
CAL 60 9 70 129 0.5426
VAN 60 17 74 137 0.5401
MIN 61 20 71 142 0.5000
EDM 60 8 62 128 0.4844
COLO 60 9 62 129 0.4806
STL 61 16 61 138 0.4420
PHX 60 9 53 129 0.4109
CHI 59 14 53 132 0.4015
COLU 60 10 52 130 0.4000
LAK 61 14 50 136 0.3676

"The shootout is a gimmick --- pure and simply. Nothing more, nothing less"

Bruce, I could not agree more. The shoot-out is Bush league. Since when is a "team sport" decided one on one. Is it exciting, yes! Is it a fair way to decide an outcome? Absolutely not.
I think Dubi once suggested 3 on 3 instead of the shoot-out. That makes sense or a lot more sense then a shoot out.

The SO is a gimmick and a bad one. If it wasn't then they would use it for the playoffs.

Jess- I wasn't sold on Avery, but the guy has been more than advertised. I believe players can mature and maybe he has. It's kind of like the Beastie Boys, who came on the scene as immature, whiny kids and now are elder statesmen promoting peace and tolerance (Okay, maybe not the best comparison, but I can see him being a key player much like Barnaby was when he was here.)

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