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February 28, 2007

Comments

your Jagr-on-a-pedestal malarkey is over the line, Dubi.

fans are sick of his undue influence on the team, sick of that euro circling pansy style of play, and sick of his selfish 2 1/2 min. shifts to hog the PP all for himself.

the Caps are paying to be rid of him, they could not get rid of him fast enough. so don't try to pull that idol worship malarkey on discerning Ranger fans who know better. HE is the cancer on this team more than any other reason.

you were right about one thing though. the Habs played like they did not care, and just handed the Rangers 2 pts.

I can't believe i'm saying this, but Garth Snow for GM! They got Ryan Smyth, the exact type of gritty but also very skilled player the Rangers need!
Now that the deadline is over, who do you think the Rangers will go after in the off season? I think Chris Drury would be perfect 2nd line center with experience winning Cups, scoring touch, and leadership. plus he grew up right up I-95 in CT. Of course Sather probably will sign more guys like Cullen and Ward...

Bob,

Dubi does not need me to jump to his defense...he's more than capable of doing that but your comments are out of line and quiet frankly wrong.

Jagr is not a pedestal. I have read multiple occasions where Dubi has taken him to task about things he has said and done.

Jagr is a great player. In fact, he is arguably the best European player to ever have laced them up in the NHL. Does he do things that are suspect? I think so and I would venture to guess that Dubi does as well. Does he yield too much influence? I would agree that he does and I think that is part of the problem that Tom Renney has in running this team, but unless you are prepared to just give away a guy who carried the team on his back the entire season last year and in spite of not putting up any real numbers still has them on his back this season. Remember, none of us, including Dubi, know the full extent of how injured Jagr is and how much pain he has played through all year.

Let me let you in on something that I don't think that you are aware of. Ranger fans just want to see W's. I don't think there is a Ranger fan among us that cares one way or the other if they are playing Euro-cycling or North American straight ahead styles of play as long as the wins get posted in their place. NOBODY complained last year when the going was good about the Euro style which was even MORE prevalent last year than this year. The problem is that this year they aren't winning. That is the cancer of this team...not Jagr...

AS far as the 2 1/2 minute stretches that you are talking about, I don't have a problem with Jags double shifting and such on the power play because he's the best we have at it and he's willing to do it. MY only problem with Jags is the shoot-outs and not stepping up and bringing them home. If he doesn't think he's that good at them then he should work on them to be better at them in practice and this I've made no secret of...

Lastly, and this is NOT just addressed to you Bob, but to everyone who has taken shots at Dubi for his point of view. All year I've read he's "a shill" and all sorts of other things for simply stating his opinion. I just have one thing to say. Dubi is a man of unquestionable integrity and a person that I have come to respect and admire for the unselfish manner in which he has built up this magazine and website. If anything I am more disgusted at the readers of this site who continues to come but is not willing to financially support this magazine and all that he is doing by purchasing a subscription. I have read some of the lamest excuses in history as to why it hasn't been done yet. Dubi won't say this, but I will. He's not making money at this and can't go on doing it forever. If this site and it's magazine are lost because of a lack of patronage by those who use and cherish it, this will be the bigger blot of the history of the Rangers than any player, any lost series anything that James Dolan or any member of MSG ever committed. It will be a loss of incredible proportion that will resonate within us for a long time. Stop making excuses and procrastinating and support Dubi's work here that only benefits all of us and BUY or RENEW a subscription NOW!

I'm sorry if I'm a bit preachy there or over the top but I think very highly of Dubi and what his efforts has produced and my passion in support of what he does in unquestioned and it's time that everyone stopped talking about being supportive and actually got off their collective rear-ends and adid something about it.

Pretty quick to knife Ward in the back now that he's gone, aren't we?

please, i have been trashing ward for months...he was NOT very physical, would repeatedly get beat, and be caught out of position...adios.
to anyone complaining that we didn't get smyth YOUR NUTS..for us to get smyth we would prbly had to of given up Staal and Callahan/dawes along with our first round pick...For a UFA, no thanks...Fans would be asking for sathers head if he made that move, and rightfully so....
finally, not a fan of isbister..would like to see callahan get that ice time and see what he can do....isbister has gotten his chance many times with many clubs and will not live up to long gone hype...

2 things about last night's game

1. Did Immonen play well? I saw maybe half the game.

2. In the half that I did see the rangers were manhandled on the boards in both the offensive and defensive zones. In a long play off series assuming they ever make the playoffs again :) they would be worn down.

Like it or not, Jagr is the captain and will continue to be so at least through next year. So . . . as Sather and Co. continue to fill in the gaps after injuries to Shanahan and Straka, it's time to find the plusses on this team (Jagr, Lundqvist, Tyutin-Girardi, Hossa, Avery, Ortmyer-Hollweg, Straka) and get behind these guys and let's make a final push for a playoff spot. Should be some great weeks ahead if the Rangers can get this thing rolling. No doubt that will mean GOING TO THE NET, CLEARING OUT IN FRONT OF OUR GOAL, and STAYING OUT OF THE PENALTY BOX. Though must us here understand our grit and strength has been appallingly lacking at key moments this season, we will have the final verdict in the few weeks. So GO RANGERS!

Good game. 2pts. I think Bob needs to watch more games. The "cancer" carried us last year and has 74pts with 2 people a game guarding him. When you post don't use "fans" your one person, speak for yourself.

There is no doubt that Jagr can be exasperating at many times throughout any given game. He does overhandle the puck and when double teamed is apt to cough it up. But he's not a cancer. I want to see Gomez between Jagr and Straka. I believe that Gomez should be our top target in the off season. Everybody says he wants to go out west, but money and less travel should be big incentives. Look at his numbers over the past 5 years and compare them to anybody his age. If you find one better, let me know.

Mitch, thanks for the kind words -- I honestly appreciate it. Still, Bob is entitled to his opinion and even though I don't agree with him, I don't think he crossed any line in expressing it. Jagr said yesterday that he'll probably play only one more season, so Bob and fans who share his view will soon get their wish.

Jon -- just reporting what I heard yesterday in the wake of Ward being traded. I had no problem taking Ward on directly before he left -- after he was torched by Robert Lang in the third period of the Detroit, I asked him a simple question: "The Lang goal?" That's all I said. He said, "Excuse me?" I said, "The Lang goal?" He said, "I don't want to tell you about it. It was a rebound, it was a shot from the point -- no comment." I said, "Thanks." I reported what Ward said in my write up about that game.

The next day, Ward went to another reporter and asked him why I was questioning him about the Lang goal -- was I blaming him for it? Yesterday, after being traded, Ward told TSN that the whole Jagr thing was blown out of proportion. One reporter bristled when he read that here -- how could he say that, the reporter said, when he was the one going around bragging about it to anyone who would listen?

No one is stabbing him in the back because he's gone -- this is just the type of stuff that comes out in the context of analyzing why a player was traded, why he failed here.

Great Stuff, on Ward...and while we're at it, besides the lang goal, you can ask him about a number of other goals...the latest in devils series...he was just awful with the puck....
Here's my thoughts on signing a guy like ward. You to be VERY careful when you sign a vet like him, a guy who has won a cup, and is on the tail end of his career...you have to question his motivation, i felt from early on Ward was here like many other mistakes we've signed in the past for one reason, and that was a payday...He was far from a physical def that we thought we were getting, and frankly he sucked so bad, he's not even worth talking about anymore...
Mara scored 15 goals a year ago...a buddy of mine works with his brother, and has been out with him a number of times..Said the guy is a moose, a good guy, and is a really character...

I agree with Gregg, Dubi. Great stuff on Ward. Can you anwswer another question: Did Lundvist REALLY let the puck him in the noggin, like Al and Joe said last night? I can't believe that. I'm a longtime goalie and can't believe that anyone could be A) that quick and B) that stupid to let a hard shot purposefully hit him in the head. (See Richter.) I saw Lundqvist "head" the last-second Flyer shot from the other zonea couple of months ago, but even that was a first for me. I also saw where the Gumper played soccer in the offseason, but I don't think he was ever "heading" the puck, particularly without the mask!

Yes, Lundqvist does that on purpose, using his helmet. I agree it's risky, but when I asked him about it after that Philly game, he said, “When you have a puck coming straight at you like that, it's easier to use your head than cover your eyes with the glove.” So basically what he was saying was that it was better to use your head on purpose than to be hit on it by accident. He actually said that he did not play that much soccer as a youth because he played so much hockey, so it's not a move he brought over from that sport.

As for the Gumper, funny you should bring this up -- there is a photo in the next issue of Blueshirt Bulletin of Worsley head butting a puck without a mask or helmet on. Incredible shot.

Derek:

"Did Immonen play well?".

Immonen had a very strong game. He set up the first Hossa goal by battling 2 defensemen and chipping the puck across the crease to an unguarded Hossa. He set up at least 2 other great scoring chances which were missed (Isbister, ?). And he had a great chance himself, only to be robbed by Halac.

He also broke up a scoring chance which would have made the game 1-1 with his hard backchecking. He seems to do this at least once in every game he plays.

All of that in 9:38 of ice time.

But he's "too slow" to play on this team. Right. Better to be fast with no talent, eh Renney?

He's done more in his minimal time (6 games?) than Betts, J. Ward, Krog, Isbister, Dupuis, and all the other Renney drones rolled into one.

At least he's still here. Maybe next year we'll have a coach who can recognize ability.

Mara's got a great shot. Now if only we play him the way he should be played and not like how we play many of our signings.....

Thx Baron!

Dubi is it 100% that Jags will only play one more season with us or u think theres chance hel play more

Mara can't be any worse than Ward, who I couldn't stand from day one. Big yapper, always with the excuses and as Dubi found out, "no comment" when his mistakes are brought up to him. Jagr should have kicked his ass!

When we gonna play Boston ward is gonna be after Jags the whole game kne knows hes the reason why he got traded

So now Ward will actually hit someone? :)

lol

Immo- I agree he played a good game. Seems to me he always gets back on defense really well and is a good little playmaker and hard worker. Was on PP unit #2 at the beginning of the game but I noticed he was replaced by Betts on PP in the third period. I presume Renney was more worried about protecting the lead than scoring on the PP in period #3, but it still seemed like the classic Renney "can't trust the young 'uns" approach. Too bad, since he was very good on early PP. THey acored while he was on the ice.

did naybody noticed in the 1st perdio when Avery got in a little shuffle and ref grabed him and told him to shut up and he yelled so loud that people in 400s heard him.Why such hate for Avery

Avery didn't get a penalty though. I'm sure he doesn't mind a ref grabbing him and shouting at him as long as he doesn't get a penalty.

I think Koharski said,"You know what you can do with your @#*^& donuts!!"

it was like the bizaro world wen the canadiens were getting all the penalties and the rangers had 1

one thing people forget about ward is that for the first 15 games or so this year ward and toots were the best ranger D pair, period. to see his game tail off the way it did was kind of shocking, and his poor positioning was just too much to bear. who was worse, him or rocky rachunek? i still like rocky's shot so i have to say i'm glad we got rid of one of our liabilities.

couple of thoughts after last night: we actually played 60 minutes for maybe the 10th time or so this year, which in itself is an embarrassing thing to write, and, still, we have three games in hand to get to montreal's 72 points in 8th position. we have four games with the fishsticks who have not shown any consistency and will now have to work a top 3 forward into the mix that has never played in the east, which i think he'll have to take some time to get used to. plus, like us, they let philly score five on them and almost lost (unlike us).

(i almost hate doing this after the tease we had a few weeks back against the bolts and the caps but as a ranger fan we can't help ourselves, eh?)

we have played all the top teams well, beat most a few times, and have been playing a more defensive style of hockey, as shown in our GA is no. 3 in the east. we are definitely allowing less shots and henrik having to work less is contributing to his being able to play more i think, which is a necessity if we are to have any run in the P/Os. the only question is which ranger team shows up thursday against the pens who will also have to integrate a couple of new faces in their lineup but will be pissed at having been shutout by the debs.

the most telling comment about last night's game was made by henrik, who echoed something my nine-year old son yelled at the beginning of the game last night at msg: we played like it was a road game. amen to that!

rangerbill...thanks for your reply. Interesting exchange with Ward. I wonder if his last couple screw-ups were responsible for his being shipped, or if he came to be viewed as a long-term organizational liability.

My view of him may be colored by an interview on XM shortly after Brooks Orpik broke Erik Cole's neck. He was empathetic, angry at Orpik, well-spoken and reflected my own views about stupid, unnecessary hitting in the NHL.

Anyway, the page has turned.

Cheers!

Likes:
Short Intelligent posts

Dislikes:
Long winded unintelligent posts.

It would be more beneficial to the board if you let the guys defend themselves.

Dubi

Your work is appreciated.

We got Ward for Free(agent) while
DuPuis/Hall/Moore have all moved twice in under a year.
We replaced
the free 34 year old D who was never the main guy anywhere, with
- a 6'4" 27-year-old establshed NHL D-man,
and
replaced Moore and a 3 with
- a 20-year-old forward, high draft pick, with some great ##s in Juniors, well thought of in some circles, who despite his lesser size has been lauded for his forechecking, and who refers to himself as a 'human cannonball'
With Immonen and Dubinsky in the queue at Center behind Moore (Ranger roster decision making aside for now), overall these seem to be worthwhile moves, as likely to payoff as not.

maybe someone already cited this Hockey's Future material, I didn't read all the posts closely the last 2 days.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/alex_bourret
Alex Bourret Prospect Grade: 7.5 C
History : 16th overall, 2005 NHL Entry Draft by Atlanta.
Bourret’s third season in the QMJHL was his coming out party. The short and stocky power forward led his team in scoring, once again increasing his offensive statistics sizeably.
He is a strong skater and a tireless worker who helped lead Lewiston into the second round of this year’s playoffs with his blend of skill and physicality.
Talent Analysis: Beyond his offensive ability, the most dominant aspect of Bourret’s game is his physical play. Rare is the shift that he does not throw a heavy body check. Built like a tank, Bourret hits to hurt – often – but he also does so cleanly. He is willing to get his nose dirty, and stick up for his teammates. He played regularly in all situations, notching seven power-play goals and five short-handed goals, and proved to be a clutch scorer, pick up five game-winning markers as well. Regardless of his short (if stocky) stature, Bourret’s lead-by-example style, his grit, desire, and excellent two-way awareness makes him a high-potential prospect.
Future : Top two line player who will hit.
----------------------------
"Bourret turns the corner for the Wolves"
http://hockeysfuture.com/articles/9324
this was the key excerpt to me:
"Bourret has been showing almost relentless pursuit of the puck as of late. He might start seasons slow, but he starts games quickly, often with a hit or a shot in his first shift. Well-known for his hitting in junior, the 5’9, 209-pounder has a talent for doing it in the open-ice, a lost art these days. A slippery and gifted passer,"

Dubi..I mistook your post for rangerbills's. Apologies..didn't figure out the over/under labelling.

Jon

I notice that the posters here with blinders on don't want to talk about why Wash.Caps paid to get rid of Jagr, about the way he sulked and quit on his team, and the fact that the FANS (plural)(thousands) all boo him every time they see him.

and as far as this malarkey that jagr carried anything on his back last year, what a crock.

if Henrik L. had not emerged as a great young goalie, and Weekes was #1 as Renney pushed for, the Rangers would have been back in the pack all season. so it was HENRIK who was the main difference last season, not jagr.

and when henrik played well in the last 15 games, the Rangers still could not win because jagr was a big failure in the scoring dept. going 26 games w/o a PP goal.

I hope he does quit after next year, but then again, when jagr quits, how can you tell?

Ward's an overbearing blowhard of limited ability. Good riddance.

Bob

I'm sorry, but you need to give credit to where it's due. Henrik was very important to the Rangers last season but he didn't play every single game. He split half the season with Weekes. Excluding the post-season, Jagr did play almost every game. Jagr finished 2nd in scoring with about 123 points and you still think he didn't carry the team? Take away the 123 points and where are the Rangers? How many points behind was the Rangers' 2nd highest point scorer? It's widely known that Jagr didn't return to last season's form because of his shoulder. You're right, Jagr didn't score a PP goal for over 20 games. But the same argument can be made about Henrik. I.e. "Where was Henrik before the all-star break?" As to Jagr's days as a capital: who cares? It's the past and it's obvious to most people that Jagr, isn't like that anymore.

1st of all even Buf fans booed Jags.They boo him not because they hate him they boo him because they see he couldve brought up wash from garbage to plaoyffs but instead he did that for us so think about that.wHOVER BOOS JAGS THEY JUST JEALOUS THAT HES NOT THERE

NOW ONTO YOUR COMMENT ABOUT HENRIK YES HE DID HELP US BUT IF U TAKE AWAY JAGS 50+ GOALS WE WOULDVE BEEN WHAT PHILLY IS THIS SEASON..IF U HAVENT NOTICED BOB THIS SEASON THERE NOT HIGH SCORING BECAUSE JAGS CANT GET ALL HIS GOALS BECAUSE OF HIS SHOULDER SP PLEASE BEFORE YOU BASH ON JAGS PLEASE REHTINK LAST SEASON

I REST MY CASE

PHIL I CANT BELIEVE WE JUST MADE ALMOST SAME POINT SO BOB AS U CAN SEE U WAS WRONG

BOB I WOULDVE TOLD U NORE THAN THAT I JUST DONT WONNA GET IN TROUBLE WITH DUBI AGAIN BUT ILL TELL U THIS IM NOT HERE TO ARGUE AND ALL THIOS NONSENSE BUT U MUST SHOW RESPECT TO A PLAYER WHO HELPED EVEN IF U HATE HIM

What's with these generalizations and the 7th grade name calling?

Jagr had a verbal spat with A.Ward? Wow, what's wrong with the media!? That should have been front page headlines !11!2!@ Give me a break. Like you've never had a verbal spat with a co-worker,friend,teammate,coach,siblings,parents etc (I hope you get the point.) I'm not being ignorant to anything. The 2005-2006 season stats are there and those numbers don't lie.

Excuse me but people who give Jagr the credit he deserves are idiots?

Bob, let me point out how you contradicted yourself in your own post ...

You posted that HenrikL was the reason the Rangers were winning last year and that he carried them on his back and that Jagr had nothing to do with it ... yet in the same post you go and post this little gem ...

>>> and when henrik played well in the last 15 games, the Rangers still could not win because jagr was a big failure in the scoring dept. going 26 games w/o a PP goal.

So ... if the team is carried by Henrik, then why would it matter if Jagr scores or not? Didn't you just post that he isn't important? That the Rangers aren't and weren't carried on his back ? That it was Henrik so argurably when Henrik plays so well and Jagr isn't scoring then the team should win because the guy that carries them on his back is doing his job and stopping the pucks ...

Please, the only person who looks ignorant here is you because the reality is that the Rangers need BOTH Henrik and Jagr to be healthy and to be playing well in order to win games and if you think otherwise then well that's your loss ...

I will say that I am sick and tired of some "fans" that love to hate on Jagr always use the "Washington" years as their main reasons for calling out Jagr ... Judge him by what he has done here in NY not by what happened in Washington where he was in a situation that he wasn't happy at ... Yes he's an athlete but he's also a person and I highly doubt that a person who isn't happy in his place of employment would've acted much differently than he did ... he is human after all ... but that doesn't matter because here in NY he's shown his character and fans like yourselves can continue to question his heart and his willingness to lay it on the line for this team and his teammates but with a badly dislocated shouler and God knows how much pain he took the ice versus the Devils in the playoffs because the team needed him ... yeah, but he has no heart ... whatever

hold on... i thought jagr had 1 more year and a club option after that which was tied to his production in some fasion. i bet he's here for 2 more years. and yes, Jarko looked good out there. should have been up all season. more bad coaching.

iceycup .. he does, but whenever he's asked about how much longer he will play he never gives a straight answer ... he has said that as long as he's healthy he would play for 3 or 4 more years but with his shoulder problems, it will all depend how strong he can get it this summer and how he will play next season ...

THANK YOU THAANK YOU.BOB DID JAGR MOLESTED U WHEN U WAS A CHILD THATS WHY U HATE HIM??? BECAUSE I DONT SEE ANY OTHER REASON ESSP WITH ALL PROOFS THAT U WRONG THATS THE ONLY REASON I CAN THINK OF

HE WILL PLAY NEXT SEASON DEFF BUT AFTER ONLY HE KNOWS BUT LIKE MATTY SAID IT ALL DEPENDS ON HIS SHOULDER

Bob, I know your dislike of Jagr is what led you make your statement without bothering to look up the relevant stats, so my quoting them to you is obviously not going to make a difference to you, but Jags scored 23 goals and 25 assists in 29 games last season in which Lundqvist did not play, significantly more on a per-game basis than the 31 goals and 44 assists he scored in Lundqvist's 53 games. This season he has 17 goals and 41 assists in Lundqvist's 52 games while playing through the all-star break with a weakened shoulder -- what a slacker, playing hurt like that!

OK, so we're idiots with blinders on selling a load of malarkey -- add to our idiotic minority all the NHL players who voted Jagr their Player of the Year award last year and all the hockey writers who voted him second for MVP (narrowly, and only because of Canadian prejudice -- wait, did I say prejudice?). And add to our idiotic minority all the NHL coaches who send their best defensive players out against Jagr and double team him instead of doing the same to, oh, I don't know, Brendan Shanahan?

OK, I stand guilty as charged -- if it's idiotic to believe all of that about Jagr, then I'm the biggest idiot in the world. Actually, I am in fact an idiot, but not for that reason...

THE MAN HAD SPOKEN:)

I made the comment about Jagr probably playing only one more season because that is part of what he said during his comments about Ward, as well as comments he has made periodically over the past two years. I'm not sure who holds the option for the additional season -- I'm sure there are circumstances under which he would choose to return to the NHL after his contract expires either way. No matter when he retires, it will be interesting to see a) who replaces him as the team's go-to goal scorer, and b) how fans react to that person, because even setting the single season goals and points record for the franchise doesn't seem to earn some players any respect with some people.

But hey, why waste so much time on a debate like this when some people are perfectly capable of giving themselves enough rope with which to hang themselves?

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=289626

good reading on Byers if anyone is interested.
Go Ottawa tonight!

It seems to me ..and i could be wrong here, but now that we have Brendan Shanahan on the rangers, some people think that now they can talk smack about Jagr since we have someone to fill the goal scoring spot, personally i dont think like that but, i am sick of people hearing about washington, look at forsberg in philly theres soooorta of an example but everyones gone through a season they'd like to have back and this season isnt jagrs best because of the shoulder, now i just hope jagrs shoulder isnt 100% because if hes using this as an excuse so people can think hes slowly becoming THAT capital player, then thats where ill be a little PO'd...eh lets go rangers and lets get have jagrs back already.

Scott

Good read.

I like the kid, great 2nd round selection.

Thanks

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