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December 31, 2006

Comments

Tonights game was more then just a win, everyone did a little something to contribute tonight, like fighting, hitting, and basically showing the caps there not wimps, shanny brought the irish - men out of everyone tonight, even though brash ha to be a wimp and bring down shanny , ill still remember that, its not about who won the fight or lost, its about the fact that it was done, and should be done every night, just hopeefully not shanny cause we need him on the ice, but all together it was a good win but the team cant let it get to there head, they gotta beat njd then they'll prove there getting there fire back, but i still stand by the fact that renney has to go. Anyway lets go nyr, and i hope Hanks in net monday, happy new years eve, ranger fans.

I say this game was a message to the league, go after our guys like JJ and watch what we will do to your bread and butter kid wonder guys. So not only are the other clubs goons on notice, so are their stars. The Rangers proved they had what it takes against a flu-ridden, tired and injured opponent, just one more test, to play like that against the Devils and others in the next few days.

i said it before and i'll say it again, FINALLY....Maybe Renney has finally seen what needs to be done...he clearly sent ORR out to blast ovenchkin and send a message...KUDOS to him and COLTON...FINALLY FINALLY we answered back, you hit jagr we hit your guy and we will hit him right smack in the jaw....you think brendan witt would keep hitting jagr if ORR does that to blake or yashin...not a chanc in hell...hopefully renney sticks to his guns...orr has a place in this lineup despite what people say, but he needs to be let loose...
and last but certainly not least, hail to the real captain, leader, and warrior brendan shanahan..can't say enough about this guy...and he didn't just fight brashear to clutch and hold on...he fought to fight...the guy is such a role model and hopefully the rest of the team takes notice...

i still think the rangers need to add a scorer and a new defensemen cause if u guys are impressed the rangers won tonight against washington dont be cause im not yes it was a great game but washngton is not that good we still need some help. it looks like we still have a little trouble getting in the zone. and our powerplay still isnt good i hope sather does something (nagy)

Colton Orr and Donald Brashear need to be suspended by the league. Players and teams that live by the sword will die by it. With his stupid, gratuitous and cheap shot on Ovechkin, Colton Orr negated any good he had previously done in neutralizing Brashear. Were I Tom Renney, I would give Colton Orr a one way ticket to Hartford for his actions. Hard checking and fighting have always had a place in hockey. Cheap shots and intent to injure someone does not!

I was at the game last night and watched Ovechin with and without the puck.

He plays a mean and nasty game, does not like to get hit and takes it as a personal affront if someone lays a lick on him. Many times last night as the whistle would blow, Ovechin would skate into a Ranger and bump him all the while trying to make it look like he was trying to avoid him. These were not significant "hits" and I thought at first they were incidental contacts but as the game wore on and Ovechin continued to do it I realized that was a part of his game.

Shanahan and Brashear were talking to each other on the bench after Brashear elbowed Jagr in the mush on a previous faceoff. My brother was in Vermont for the holiday weekend and not at his customary spot in the seat next to me but phoned in regularly with info not available to those at the game.

I was screaming for someone to step in or even come off the bench when Shanahan and Brashear were about to square off but Shanny said in the post game interview he wanted Brashear.

Orr took a bonehead penalty earlier and when he ran Ovechin with just under 5 minutes left I thought he was going to get a major. Ovechin lay on the ice in a grand display like he was going to spend the rest of his time on this earth on life support while being fed thru a tube.

Both he and Sidney Crosby must have attended the Billy Barber school of diving as he was up and ready for another shift after the dust settled.

My nephew pointed out that the guy who went after Orr and got the instigator with less than 5 minutes to go would get a suspension and fine and the coach would also be fined.

I would like to know what Aaron Ward said or did that earned him the unsportsmanlike penalty when Brashear suckered him.

I have written often here and in the BB hard copy that Brashear is nothing more than a mega-goon with no talent and if it was not for his ability to beat people up would have had a career asking people "Do you want fries with that"?

I had thought last year would be his last in the league and was much dismayed when I saw the Caps had signed him....for a million bucks, no less.

The league has to come down on him for the match penalty and knowing him and his history he will say Ward called him a name. I will leave it at that.

I had a late night night last night and slept in so I have not read the papers yet.

A bunch of us from section 404 went to Mustang Harry's afterwards to celebrate the victory and help ring in the New Year.

Everyone thought that what Shanahan did was the stuff captains are made out of.

When I saw Straka at the scorers table with the Caps "C" talking to the referee while Jagr skated near the Ranger bench I was pissed. How is that Jagr looked so disinterested? He should have been there instead of Straka.

He has not been the same since he took that elbow to the jaw from Derian Hatcher in Philly.

Big win in a game that had everything.

I think they should have all the officials fly in to some location on New Year's Day and be given a seminar on when to call a penalty shot.

They all suck at it.

BOTTOM line is this, call it what u will, but what colton orr did to ovenchkin was ABSOLUTELY necessary. It is the only thing to do to keep teams from taking shots at our stars...how many times can u let brashear, witt and even tom freakin poti throw unpenalized elbows at Jagrs head with no response....perhaps now that Renney finally lifted his skirt, and showed some necessary toughness ORR won't need to put his stick in the opposing players jaw...i don't like cheap shots either but it is COMPLETELY necessary to protect our stars!!!
GO RANGERS AND HAPPY NEW YEAR

Mhurley Orr did the cheap shot cuase:a) He send a message u hit our start(shanny) we hit yours and B) cuz Brashir gave a cheap shot to Aaron Ward.And Ovechkin ran into Henrik.If u dont liek hockey with fights and guys do everything they can even if ti means by injurying someone maybe hockey is not your sport.

Shanny proved yesterday that hes a captain of this team.Jagr would neva drop his gloves for shanny or anybody else.Shanny looked like Messier our there.

The whole team PLayed good.Even tho Caps is a crappy team but we seen that rangers can play this kind of hockey.Its not about who we beat its how they play to beat them.

I really hope Tommy will not put Kaspar in the street cloth when Malik comes back.Kaspar got 2 goals already Malik got none. I think Rachunek gonna go what do u think?
?

Mhurley - it was unfortunate you posted the same thing twice, because reading it a second time only reinforced how wrong it was.

BTW, I completely agree that Brashear and Orr should be suspended by the league for their actions. But that doesn't negate the fact that what Orr did was EXACTLY the right thing to do from the Rangers standpoint.

Brendan Witt better be the next to feel the pain, because he's thrown cheap shots in all three games with the Fishsticks so far. Witt and the rest of the pansy Islanders like Yashin or Satan need to be sent a big-time message.

"mhurley"

"Colton Orr and Donald Brashear need to be suspended by the league."

Sorry Margaret, totally disagree with you. If the league was a pure finesse league I'd be more inclined to agree with you. That is what they intended to happen but instead, we got a hybrid version which is the worse scenario of all. I'm from the old school, as you probably figured out, and back then (since 1946), teams took care of their own business. Since so much of this cheap shot stuff goes on now, I say take the gloves off and police your own team. Also getting rid of one ref won't hurt things either, just another guy who sucks on the ice.

Sure Orr's shot was cheap but it was in defense and support of the cheap shot Breshears has been taking at Jagr all night. I support it fully. After reviewing Shanny's remarks and some of the comments here about it, like Mitch's, I now think they are right and Shanny supported what Orr did. Who know's, he might have have conferred with Renney and told him to let Orr at him (Ovechkin).

Margaret, I heard all about your fabulous cookies before I was exiled from Rodent and Bird Island. They go great with big turkey!

Jess and Margaret, I agree with your sentiments about cheap shots in theory -- very strongly as a matter of fact. In practice, however, as long as the NHL refuses to do anything to stop opponents from cheap shotting the Rangers (while calling chintzy hooks and holds that aren't really penalties), you have to fight fire with fire. This has been long overdue.

By the way, Orr will not be suspended -- he didn't intend to hit Ovechkin in the jaw. The refs will tell Colin Campbell that he received the two minute minor his actions deserved, the impact being an unfortunate accident. Otherwise, they would have given him a double minor or major.

After last night, I am a really big fan of Pock. He has been solid on D, was excellent on the 5 on 3, and his shots from the blue line consistently get through. I wish Malik could stay injured... Hopefully our physical play in the game agaisnt the caps wasen't a one night stand(Kasper running Ovechkin in the 1st period, Shanny, Orr knockin' some teeth out in the 3rd etc) and the Blueshirts start stepin' up the physicality. As many posters stated: if they run our star, than we run their star...simple as that. Hopefully this game will end up being the catalyst Prucha needs. Both his goals were awesome.

I was there. I saw it. It was a cheap shot. And with Brashear tossed, unnecessary. At that point in the game, with a 3-0 lead the Caps had done nothing, nothing, to warrant that kind of a response by Orr. If it had happened in the last minute in the game, Renney would have been fined and Orr given a three game suspension. I agree, if other players go sfter our talent we should go after theirs. Orr's cross check at that time was wrong.

If they Rangers skate hard, check hard and play good hockey, there is no need to lower themselves into the gutter with with goons.

Aside from last nights game, try to remember the game against the Atlanta Thrashers. It seems that Renny only allows Orr ,or anyone else, to enforce if a game is a sure victory and/or a blowout. Our coach is soo scared of losing a close game, if its a one goal margin or at a tie, that he does nothing to stop enforcers from running Jagr and co; even if that means getting a penalty, at the expense of sending a message.

All the violence aside, the positives we can take away are that the "Kid" had some night (and let's hope he is regaining his scoring touch), Lundqvist played great, the PK was awesome and Pock had a solid game, as did the enire Ranger D.

The powerplay is still the glaring problem. They haven't a hope in hell if it doesn't get fixed pronto.

Margaret, nobody is denying it was a cheap shot but it was necessary. You talk about the team not lowering themselves into the gutter with the goons, but just what do you expect them to do if attacked with a cheap shot from one of these goons??

The refs don't call them all, it's up to the teams to protect themselves. I wish the game were more pure like I believe the intentions of the league were but Margaret, it's just not that way.

If you ignore the usually uncalled cheap shots to your teammates, you are going to end up with a banged up team who will just not have the energy to win games. Last year's collapse at the end will be nothing compared to what is coming if you ignore the cheap shots.

The above is just my opinion of course, but I have been right before.

You do have a point about the timing of it but the Caps now have something to think about. Better late than never!!

Derek just broke the record for multiple posts here.

I like the way Pock played too. He was the best D on the ice for the Rangers last night.

Whether or not Orr gets suspended, I don't care. I don't like the guy, I don't think he's good at his job, and would love to have someone else on the team that did it better, but what he did to Ovechkin was absolutely necessary. The Rangers have been manhandled all season, and have turned the cheek again and again and again. Tonight, they made a stand. And they sent the rest of the league a message that they'll do whatever it takes to stand up for their teammates. It's a message that's long overdue. And while I generally don't agree with the old "an eye for an eye" addage, there comes a time when enough is enough. Orr paid Ovechkin back for Brashear's cheap shot on Ward, for his own agressive play all night, and for driving the net and nearly taking our starting goalie out. If he gets a suspension for it, so be it. I tend to doubt he will.

Btw, anyone using the fact that Jagr doesn't fight as a reason to criticize his captaincy needs to learn more about how the game works. Jagr never has, and doesn't know how to fight. Nor should he ever. If I'm his coach or his teammate, and he drops the gloves, I kick his ass myself after the game. The last thing you want is your leading offensive player, who has no clue what he's doing in a fight, going up against a heavyweight and breaking his hand, or getting his jaw, cheek or orbital bone broken. Fighting has been part of Shanny's game since he came into the league. He knew exactly what he was doing, and I'm only surprised that it's taken him this long to do it. (Although according to Dellapina, Shanny tried to get Neil to go after his hit on Prucha on Friday, and Neil refused.)

There is more than one way to lead a team, and every team has more than one leader in the dressing room. This silly "Shanny's a real captain, Jagr should give him the C" crap is getting old. Who gives a toss who's wearing the "C"? It takes more than one player to lead a team, and more than one type of leader to do it. Jagr is struggling right now, no doubt. But anyone criticizing him for "looking disinterested" (based on what they see from a dozen yards away up in the stands) need only read some of the quotes in Dellapina's recent blog post (linked to by Dubi in yesterday's post) to see that's far from the truth.

Laurie: I stated what I observed.

Jagr's line was on the ice and Straka was with the Washington captain and officials discussing what occured on the previous play at the scorer's table.

Jagr was not interested in what was being discussed. He didn't even approach the discussion and just skated in circles by himself in front of the Rangers bench.

I've known Dubi for years, I write for him, I read what he writes about in the locker room and I get to talk to him every once in while before a game during warm-ups. I also read the Dellapina blog.

I never said Jagr should give up the "C" or that it wasn't his team or that he wasn't a force in the room. I have had the pleasure of discussing that very issue with Dubi as he has access to the room and sees things first hand.

All of that stuff wasn't a factor in what I saw from more than a dozen yards away from my seat in the blues up in Section 404.

Straka was there while Jagr was skating in circles. I could not see Jagr's face but he was skating alone and talking to no one.

That appeared to be disinterested to me.

You could see that up close and personal or from a dozen yards away.

Please don't take my observation from one particular incident and connect it to something that had no relevance to what was observed and how I felt when I observed it.

Dubi

If the refs did not give Orr anything more than a minor then they should get the suspension in his place. The rules about fighting in the last five minutes of the games were put in place to avoid what happened last night It seems that everyone but the NHL has the right idea as it is an automatic game misconduct everywhere else. What Orr did was wrong and I will bet you that all this has done is guarantee that come Feb 10 that there will an escalation of the cheapshots/paybacks.

MHurley

I guess it is you and me against the world so bring plenty of cookies and I will bring the bullets

Laurie

Jagr has been great at saying things but that does not make him a leader. I am old school as I expect my leader to be the first one on the ice not the last like Jagr typically is. I expect the team leaders to be shouting at their teammates when they are not showing up ready to play.

Heck Ryan Russell who is perhaps the world's smallest captain will jump in the face of anyone not giving his all. Brodie Dupont ripped his teammates for their effort and then went out on an 11 games scoring streak. Eric Hunter told the team to follow him and then went on a hot streak of his own.

I could go on and on as our kids know what it means to be a leader.

Re:Shanny

He and Stevie Y led the Red Wings to what they did over the years all which Stevie Y got the lion's share of the credit but Shanny showed he was a true team leader.

What he did last night, I can understand after a night's sleep but it still does not change my view that I don't want him dropping the gloves against a Brashear or anyone as he is way too important to the Rangers to lose for 5 minutes, 10 minutes or possibly an injury.

Lenny

I have called for responses from the Rangers when they are run over the years you have known me but the responses have to be just and measured not at the end of the game where the only affect it will have is give incentive for the next matchup. It has to be done right after someone has done it to you to send the proper message.

We used call for John Paddock to be the Ranger coach because he would send out the protectors/goons at the first sign of trouble. What Orr did at the end of the game would have pissed Paddock off.

Well boys and girls I'm sure you're all sitting by your respective computers reading all the responses thinking to yourselves, "Wow, these are some interesting things people are posting and with no fighting. Isn't that marvellous? I wonder why Mitch Beck hasn't chipped in yet? he must have something interesting to add that will infuriate the rest of us..."

Here it comes...

Margaret and Jess...(Can you feel the anticipation in the air? I can...)

Add me to your list of...co-conspirators. I thought Orr's shot on Ovechkin was totally unnessary and 100% uncalled for. The point that the Rangers weren't going to allow teams to rough up their star players had already been more than made and in my opinion the extra shot, especially that late did nothing but pull us into an Iraq/USA Spetember 11th comparison that is dead on.

Immediately Post 9/11 this nation was totalyl in a faovred nation status with much of hte world as they felt that the shot and the devestation that this nation had received was uncalled for and over the line. When we retalliated and went into Afganistan looking for Osama Bin Laden nobody faulted us for that and they supported our efforts to get him. When Bush decided to take that good will and spend it in Iraq and then not tell the world the truth etc he took that good will and flushed it down the toilet. We went from being the victim in the world's eye to being a bully. I think that is exactly how Orr's transgression is goign to be viewed in the hockey world. We were getting beat up pretty much night in and night out and taking it without real retalliation. Last night started off by us hitting back, against a weaker opponent mind you and I think the hockey world was happy that the Rangers were goign to now stand up and fight back. When Shanny lowered a boom on Brashier's head and stood up for ALL Rangers players of the past few seasons and put it out there that we were not going to take it anymore the point was made. However by Colton Orr doing what he did and goign after Ovechkin,, who I know Bettman must be pissed off about because he is one of the games brightest rising stars, I feel like the point had already been made and the issue dealt with and this turned us into picking on the beaten foe and without provocation and totally unneccessarily. So I am with you on this one...All for one and one for all...

To the rest of you...

We beat up on an opponent that was exhausted and let's face it they're awful. This was not like we just kicked the butt of Buffalo, it's Washington for goodness sakes. Did they make a statement, I suppose that could be said, but to me it won't mean a single solitary thing if we don't beat the Devils on Tuesday. Also, don't delude yourself into thinking that the ship is corrected and all things are now solid in Rangerland, because it clearly isn't...the Rangers played a GOOD game but certaqinly not a GREAT game. They still made an ampole share of mistakes including taking some very stupid penalties in the 2nd that a better team might have capitalized on (pardon the pun)...and for the most part Jagr was still invisible. Was this a positive stepping stone? We won't know till they face NJ and how that game turns out...

Mitch please don't infuse your political opinions on this site. I come hear to get away from all of the bipartisan bullcrap we have to hear and watch every single day in our society. This is my escape, please don't ruin it. Debates should entail the Rangers and Hockey. If i wanted to espouse my political views i would not come to this site. We get it, your a Bush hater and disagree with his policies. I will not voice my opinions on the debacles of the previous administration but only discuss the debacles of the Ranger administration. Thank You.

You know what gets me?

Certain fans who were complaining that the team didn't stand up for each other, that they weren't physical enough and are now saying that what Colton Orr did was cheap and unnecessary since Shanny had taken care of Brasheur and I beg to differ .. yes, Brasheur was the one who gave Jagr the cheap shot and as much as I love watching Ovie play and cheer for him against other teams he is a chippy player who was in everyone's faces all night long ... he didn't, for a second, try to miss Henrik when he charged at him and Henrik could've been really hurt ... and from people who were there they say that he kept bumping into Rangers after the play trying to draw something ... Is Ovie one of the league's brightest stars along with Crosby and others? Yes, does he tend to give the cheap shot himself? Defenitely. I watch a lot of Caps games because I love watching him but he gives it a lot, specially this year with Brasheur on the team. He was a few inches away from perhaps ended Daniel Briere's season this year because had Briere's face hit the bench in between where the door opens when Ovie hit him from behind when there wasn't even a play going on Daniel would've had facial injuries akin to Kris Draper in the 96 playoffs vs the Avs ... The is that Ovie isn't a little angel out there, nor does he play like one

Now what I think is that the team finally had enough ..The cheap hit on Ovie? It was more than just about the Capitals and what was going on in that game .. this was about the Darcy Tuckers, Darian Hatchers, Chris Neils, Cam Janssens, Brendan Witts, and so on and so forth who have taken cheap shots at Jagr, Prucha, Shanny, Straka, Nylander, and Henrik with absolutely NO RETALIATION by the Rangers ...

This kept escalating all throughout the first half of the season, game by game that the Rangers did nothing in response to these cheap shots ... teams got bolder with them and continued to do it because they knew that the Rangers wouldn't respond ... That Elbow by Hatcher in Philly? Something should've been done then, nothing was and although they won that game and the next one(Thanks to Weekes and Henrik mainly) by the time they got to Toronto and the Leafs escalated the hitting and the cheap shots the team folded and got spanked 9-2, same thing the next night vs the Devils(6-1 loss) then the Isles(4-3 loss) and the two losses to FLA/TPA ? No chippiness there but the team gave up in the 3rd in both contests... I saw hints of them turning a corner vs the Isles(2-0 loss) and OTT(1-0 loss) because while they were still letting most cheap shots go you could see them grow angrier and less willing to take it, specially around Henrik's crease ....

What Orr did was necessary so that when other teams face the Rangers and want to run Jagr, Henrik and Prucha and others, they understand that there will be consequences for their actions ... Call it cheap and unnecessary, say that the team should fine and suspend him if the league doesn't, but don't think for a moment that the fact that he did that won't make Cam Janssen, on Tuesday, think twice before trying to run Jagr/Prucha since the possibility of Gionta, Gomez, Parise, or Elias getting similar treatment is very high now ...

Do I enjoy the team doing this? Not at all, BUT I was sick and tired of seeing them do nothing at all ... of other teams doing to the Rangers what the Rangers did last night to the Capitals ... So kudos to ALL of them for standing up for each other and not taking it anymore ... The Caps, flu-riddled and all are one of the most penalized teams in the League and flu and all they weren't playing "nice" out there

Also comparing what Orr did to September 11th and the war has no place here, imo ...

Mhurley/Jess/Mitch

Remember when Jagr got the Hatcher hit. Close game, not a good time to "get even". I wrote then that it was a good move not to do anything (the two points were more important). In fact, the Rangers needed to get a few more goals and then turn the third period into a free for all. Well, this time we got the 3 goal lead and Orr did what was truly required. THAT'S HOCKEY! Do I like it, no; do I want it repeated, yes-if opponents do not respect our top players, then we can't respect thier top players. Play a good, hard hitting, aggressive game and that's fine. I'm all for banning the Orr's, Tucker's, Brasher's from the game, but that's not going to happen...so you're stuck keeping those kind of "players" under control. Believe me, the owner doesn't want to see his prize player laying in a heap on the ice, so the message will work itself down to the coaches to "protect" the prized player and that will mean play hard but play clean and that would be good for the sport. Let's see if Janson is in the next game and what he does. I'm sure the Devils don't want to see Gomez or Elias laid out!

Ron, my apologies if you took my entire comment on Jagr as a response only to yours -- that was not my intention. Yes, the "disinterested" piece was in response to what you said, but my larger comment was a response to many posts read here and elsewhere in the past weeks regarding Jagr, Shanny, leadership and who should be wearing the "C" on this team. I haven't had a lot of time to post lately, and my post was more of a general airing of griefs ignited by a couple of posts today. I do, however, maintain that there was no point in Jagr joining the conversation with the refs when his alternate captain was already handling things. His butting in would have only served to tick off the refs, undermine his teammate, and piss off the Caps. If he were still playing for the Pens and did something like that, Rangers fans would have roundly criticized him for "whining" to the refs. I was watching him the whole time from my seat as well. What I saw was a frustrated player skating with his head down. Obviously, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. I just think Rangers fans, in general, have been way too quick to condemn him for giving up on his team or not caring.

Jess, while I understand where you're coming from, not everyone is going to be the vocal leader you want. You mentioned Yzerman in your post. Stevie Y was not the one making the dramatic locker room speeches in Detroit or stepping in to stand up for his teammates. Shanny was. But yet no one took issue with Stevie wearing the "C" while Shanny wore only an "A". Jagr will never be the kind of leader Shanny and Messier are/were. In my opinion, that doesn't and shouldn't diminish the leadership role he does play on the team, and the amount of respect he gets from his teammates.

Mitch, yes, the Caps aren't the Sabres. And yes, they were exhausted, injured, and battling the flu. But so were we a couple weeks ago when this skid started. Every team goes through it, and it's important to battle through when it's you going through it, and take advantage when it's your opponent. The Rangers did just that last night. And when you call the Caps "awful", just remember that the Rangers held only a single point lead on them in the standings when the game started last night. Washington is not the team they were last year, and will be one of many teams, including quite possibly the Rangers, who are battling for the final playoff spot come April.

Sorry for the 2nd post but I skipped most of Mitch's post when I read the first line about the Sept. 11th/War/Bush comparison ... I didn't see a need for whatever comparisons you were about to make there Mitch since that has nothing to do with Hockey and has no place here ... but I did go back and read it and found the following ...

Mitch, you say that most of the hockey world will view what Orr did as being a bully ...

>>> We went from being the victim in the world's eye to being a bully. I think that is exactly how Orr's transgression is goign to be viewed in the hockey world.

>>>

This is not so ... I pretty much watch the 2nd half of Hockey Night in Canada every Saturday since during the first half the Rangers are usually playing someone ... HNIC almost always ignores the Rangers games except to give the boxscore .. last night they actually had an extended segment just talking about the Rangers/Capitals games and every analyst praised the Rangers for finally standing up and not taking it anymore ... Yes, even that cheap hit by Orr on Ovechkin was praised as the price the Capitals took for trying to run at Jagr and Henrik and others and that now teams, as long as the Rangers commit to playing like this, will think twice about doing this to them ...

Same thing on ESPN, which I hold little regard for since they only pay attention to hockey when stuff like this happens anyway ... but HNIC has knowledgable, passionate hockey people and they only view what happened at the end of the Rangers game by Colton Orr as the right thing to do ... TSN ? The same, the highlights and the people at Sportsnet Canada? Same way ... so I do want to know who are the people in the hockey world, who matter, who view what Orr did in a bad light

I forgot to mention in the report because I didn't have the recorder running at the time, but Shanahan was speaking to Orr as they were lining up for the face-off before Orr ran Ovechkin, and someone asked him whether he told Orr to do something like that. Of course he denied saying anything along those lines. He was shocked -- shocked! -- that anyone could even imagine such a thing.

Jess, the Rangers responded all game long, not just at the end. Ovechkin was being hit every chance anyone got, including Rozsival. Orr went to the protection of Lundqvist and even Hollweg. Ward and Hall went to protect Lundqvist. Shanahan called a pre-game meeting to tell them they had to get each other's backs. There is nothing wrong with that, there is nothing wrong with what anyone did in this game from the Ranger side -- no one did anything like what Brashear did.

If you think that all it does is invite retaliation the next game, weigh that against what might happen the next time they play Ottawa and that idiot Neil starts running Rangers again -- when someone goes out and runs Heatley and Alfredsson, maybe Neil will think twice about the consequences of his actions. I don't like it one bit, but until the NHL does something about it, the Rangers have to do it themselves -- and it's been long overdue.

Ron, have you considered that Renney sent Straka over? Maybe he was the closest guy at the time. Why didn't Shanny go over if he's the real leader of this team? He was on the ice at the time. Of course Jagr would skate around disinterested if he was just killing time waiting for the debate to end. To impute that he didn't go over in the first place due to disinterest may not be fair -- there are other possible scenarios.

People are reading things into this leadership thing that simply don't exist. Jagr and Shanahan have different styles, and they each respect what the other brings to the table, and neither is in the least concerned over who has the C and who has the A. Why are you guys making such a big deal out of it? Why are you guys trying to create controversy for the Rangers where it doesn't exist among the Rangers? It's not going to help. These guys have built a better working relationship between themselves than anyone could have predicted given their differing styles -- let them get on with it and don't invent issues that do not exist.

Jess, I remember an incident, long before you were born, where the Rangers, like today, were basically picked on but a one time retrobution ended all that for that season.

I'm taking 1956 or so, don't even think you were a gleam in your father's eye yet, Howie Young, a dirty playing defenseman for the Detroit Red Wings, was using his stick on the Rangers all night. The Rangers managed to grab the lead 5-2 and finally with a few minutes to go my idol, Andy Bathgate, took care of business. He circled behind the net, caught Young unawares and proceeded to knock the stick out of his hand then pounded him to the ice with viscious lefts and rights. No one on Detroit, even the great fighter Gordie Howe, wanted any part of Bathgate and the message sent that evening was "understood" for the remainder of the season.

Gordie Howe, great player and fighter, would intimidate a lot of players but not Bathgate. He never even had as much as a shoving match between the two as far as I remember. There was a code of respect back then and I would like to see it return today.

Jess, I do agree with you and Margaret about the timing of the cheap shot, but more important to me, it was better doing it late than at all. Wish it wasn't tolerated in the league so that we could see some pure hockey instead of cheap shots but it just isn't happening that way.

I see you are now first in line for Margaret's cookies but damn it, could you please release the ban on all the donut shops? I am having donut withdrawal. DOesn't our friendship mean anything to you?? :)))

aw crap ... Laurie now you've made me gone and post again lol

I just wanted to tell you that ITA with your entire two posts here ...

I grow increasingly frustrated with the level of criticism thrown Jagr's way and yet during this 9 game skid was Shanny tearing it up in the scoreboard? Yet I heard not one of the fans who love to point out Jagr's short-comings talking about that ... The matter of the fact is that the only people who have a problem with Jagr being the Captain of the NY is a certain portion of the fans, not the people who matter and folks the people who matter are the NY Rangers players themselves ...

I am not saying that what fans want aren't important but in as far as who the Captain is? You cannot tell me that the C on Jagr's jersey isn't earned or deserved ... Shanny has worn the A since 1996 and has been great in his role ... all the players in that lockeroom who were here last season know who the Captain is and love him as much as they love Shanny and what he has brought to the team I do not, for a second, believe that any of them would say otherwise ... I just don't understand .. why, having two superstars of the caliber of Jagr and Shanny on our team, people feel the need to try and tear one down to build the other one up .... I am thankful we have them both ...

Also Laurie, your point about how the Rangers were expected to compete and win even when they were going through their horrible flu sickness? Yeah, I remember some people posting about that and giving the team NO SLACK whatsoever for going through that and yet, last night, when they face a team in the same situation then they turn around and give them little credit for beating them .. it's like damn if you do and damn if you don't

Matty, do you live in Canada? If not, how can i get the TSN Hockey Night in Canada? I hate ESPN and the lack of coverage given to the NHL.

Vlo, I live in South Florida which you know .. great for weather(well, except in Hurricane season), bad for hockey ... so in order not to lose my mind I purchase NHL Center Ice, I now wonder how I only lived on ESPN in the years before Center Ice ...

On Saturdays and certain weekdays they show the CBC HNIC broadcasts complete with 30 minute pre-game and 30 minute post-game ... also the Center Ice package does broadcast any team's special pregame ceremony that might be happening which is cool

Won't DirecTV work for you? With the hockey package, you can see just about every game played. Of course, have to deal with the blackout restrictions wich I get upset about since I paid for the package. But it's better than no hockey at all. Good luck!

Vlo,

I wasn't making any political statement at all and you shouldn't read it that way because none was intended. I was making a fair comparison between perceptions between our nation and Ranger nation. Just for the record though, do I hate Bush? The answer is yes. But I did vote for the guy twice so before you, or others, start classifying me one way or the other I think you should know that and we can all just let the politics thing die. I want to make it "perfectly clear," to quote Nixon that my point was not to bash George Bush at all. How I or anyone else feels about him has nothing to do with anything. Re-read the posting and bear that in mind when you do and you might understand the point a little better.

As for you folks that like TSN, you do realize that ESPN owns it right? The programming is for Canada and as we all know they place a little bit more importance on the game than we do here in the States. (Also not a political statement, but is a fact). The only way that you can see any of TSN is either on their website TSN.ca or as part of the CenterIce package you might get a few moments on some of the games they carry.

Look folks the bottom line on this thing is that we all agree that it was a cheap shot. I don't think anyone here including those who liked to see it disagree about that. What Jess, Margaret and I feel is that two wrongs don't make it right. If you don't want guys taking extra shots at our guys then play tougher and kick the rear end of the guys who do it. If any of you have kids, you must have used the line, I know I have, "if Johnny jumped off a bridge would you?" This is the same thing. So what if other teams do it. The way that you handle it shows whether you are above it or not and I would like to think that the Rangers are above playing dirty hockey. Tough I like, dirty I don't. I don't want a Darcy Tucker or Grant Marshall or a Cam Janssen on this team. If a guy is tough but also has talent then I don't mind it but again two wrongs don't make it right...tough responses are the deterrent not bigger and dirtier play because all that happens is the other teams will fire back MORE dirty play...

Well that POS Colon (yeah, I spelled it right) Campbell decided that it wasn't so bad what Brashear did and gave him a 1 game suspension, even though he is a blatant repeat offender, while giving Colton Orr 5 games. I was expecting about 5 and 5 so where is the justice in that? I still think Campbell has the bad taste in his mouth from the Ranger firing, but he should be above that when he is in his position. The truth be told, Colon Campbell was a lousy coach and got what he deserved. Guess what he also sucks at his new job!!! Now Brashear will continue to run the best players in the league while being sanctioned by Campbell! This turds for you Colon!!!

What's the point of TSN being owned by ESPN ? In Canada they put an emphasis on hockey and none of their top analyst had a problem with what happened in the game last night or what with Orr did, in fact they thought it was long overdue ...

Also I do not believe that a terrorist attack(9/11) and our response to it(a war) is any kind of fair comparison to a hockey game or what happens within it ...

The funny thing about turning the other cheek and not going after the Caps best players is that it hasn't worked for the Rangers now has it? Do the other team's tough guys go after ours? Nope, they don't go after Hollweg or Orr(whenever he plays) .. nope, they go after our stars and the only way to deter that is to go after theirs ... unfortunately if the league did what they preach and protected our Stars then the Rangers wouldn't of needed to do what happened last night ...

What happened to Derian Hatcher for his cheap elbow on Jagr? What happened to Chris Neil for his head hunting shot at Prucha on Friday? Did the league come down on them and protected Jagr and Prucha ? How will a team, with a player like Cam Janssen, such as Jersey get the message that if they dare to go after our guys with cheap shots that their stars will get it too? By the Rangers simply going after Brasheur and leaving it at that? So the Devils need to fear the Rangers going after Cam Janssen? Yeah, that strikes fear in them, losing that guy ...

You can say that this will only inspire more dirty play when these teams meet again but I say that even had Orr not gone after Ovechkin that Brasheur would STILL had been geared up in that game to go after Jagr, Prucha, Henrik, Shanny and whomever else he felt he could hurt ... now what does running Ovie do? Perhaps it makes Hanlon think twice about putting Brasheur out there vs certain combos as he knows that if Donald B. goes after one of our guys again then Ovie will be, once again, fair game ... does he want to take that risk? The Rangers won initiate it, they are not that kind of team, but now I believe that the Caps and other teams might feel that they are defenitely willing to finish it if need be

Johnny didn't jump off the bridge- Colton Orr pushed him....

Orr suspended 5 games, Brashear suspended for 1 game.

That's a lot of bull coming from Soupy. He of course has a bias against the Rangers because of his unceremoneous firing as Ranger coach. He sucked at that job and sucks at this one.

No way was that a 5 to 1 difference in punishment. Ranger players have been abused worse than that and the perpetrators got away with zero suspensions.

There was some talk about not being good when your top players have to play policeman and handle retaliation but not necessarily so in the old days.

In the old days, a lot of the star players had that job. Bathgate with the Rangers, later Hadfield and Kurtenbach. Howe and Lindsay with the Red Wings, Tim Horton with the Maple Leafs, just to name a few. Shanahan plays like he's from the old school so go get em Shanny.

Too bad the Rangers don't have Grenier any more. There's a guy who can duke it out with the best. Why the Rangers got rid of him befuddles the mind. I saw him at Hartford last year and he isn't the fastest skateer around but you can think of him as a bigger version of Malik who could fight. Could we use him now!!

There should also be some thought about bringing up Weller to handle Orr's duties for at least the next 5 games.

thats BS Orr got 5 games and the other one got 1

Vlo, I have Comcast digital cable ... i have thought of switching to Satellite because I've heard that I might be able to order the MSG Network but I hesitate as I like my cable dvr box

Matty, you can get a dvr box with satellite too.

Giving Colton Orr 5 games in my opinion is well deserved. Giving Brashier on the other hand only 1 makes no sense whatsoever or (pardon the pun) is completely ridiculous. I would expect the Rangers to appeal that and either Orr's will be reduced...wrong call or Brashier's will be increased...right call. Giving a repeat offender a free pass is insane and sends the wrong message. The only thing it could be is that the retailliation is more wrong in Campbell's eyes than the instigator. I disagree with him and think they both should have received 5 games.

On the other hand, I am having a great deal of difficulty trying to understand the mentality of all of you on this issue so I am just not going to try and debate it with you and I will just say that we disagree about it. That is one of the things that makes this country great. Sorry for the political reference there Vlo...I'll do my best not to make anything remotely seem political in nature the rest of the way... :)

Endorsing Orr's behavior to me is flat out wrong. It's that mentality that two wrongs make it right or if you cheat then it makes it alright if I cheat too that I cannot come to grips with. It's rationalizing and justifying bad behavior. Who knows, maybe it's a morality thing? That's not to say I'm thinking I'm better or anything like that. I'm meaning that I think differently about certain forms of behavior, that's all..., no superiority thing going on here, trust me on that.

Regarding the reference to Sept 11 I'm sorry if you disagree with my using it, but it is applied correctly especially if you understand the meaning which is again that two wrongs don't make it right. You don't like the fact that I used that as an example, you're entitled to your opinions and I respect that, and apologize if it offended you, however like I said, the reference does make perfect sense if you follow where I was coming from.

Lastly folks, this has been an extremely difficult year for me personally (sorry I forgot the violins) and I have clashed with some of you on near epic proportions it seems at times, but I want you to know that it has been the bright spot in my year this year to have gotten to know some of you personally and the rest of you here on line. I feel like we're all related in some way so if any of you have any spare money to lend...oh, never mind, just a joke. Anyway, I am getting ready to take my wife Pam out for a night at a club that I've performed at recently but what I wanted to say is that to each of you may you have a very peaceful, happy, healthy and prosperous New Year filled with exciting surprises and the thrills that will, to quote Sam, "last a lifetime..."

To Jess, both you and Margaret (thank you for the great warmth and smiles at each game...the cookies were amazing too) have added a dimension to my life that I cherish very deeply. I will say it right here and right now that there is nobody on this board, or in my experience anyway that knows more than you do Jess about young prospects. I thank you for your friendship and the life lessons you've taught me.

Dubi, I don't know how to say this other than to be direct. I admire you. Not only for your putting your money where your heart is but because you are living your dream and I respect you for that. Also, thank you for fulfilling my dream of being a professional hockey writer. Your friendship is immeasurable and we all as Rangers fans owe you a debt that only can be repaid by SUBSCRIBING TO THE MAGAZINE! (A little commercial hint…). I look forward to seeing you again and the adventures that we are sure to see together in the next year.

Again, to each and every one of you, from me and my family to you and yours...Happy New Year!!!

Mitch, what do you perform as a night club performer?? Sounds interesting and something I have no talent for.

Yes, we are all Ranger fans and occasionally have disagreements with, both hockeywise and personally but I learn a lot here, on Sam's site and with the transplanted NYT site, now at proboards.

Sorry I can't say the same for Bird's and Rodent's sites.

Seriously, let me know where you perform, probably NYC, and just might come to see you some time. Promise not to throw tomatoes (is the an "e" in there or not)?

By the way Mitch, totally agree about the difference injustice of the suspensions given to Orr and Breshear. That's Campbell's bias getting in the way. Whether it's 1, 2, 5 or 10 games, both guys should have been given the same.

I understand your 9/11 analogy and it was right on the money for me.

This is bad, you and I agreeing too much!!

Sorry Mitch but you are so wrong about Orr's actions. I applaud Orr for what he did, sending a message that the league won't send to Hatcher( elbow to Jagr's head) ; Brashear's sucker punch on Ward; Neil's intent to injure elbow on Prucha.

These infractions did not result in a serious injury to the Ranger players , just like Orr's didn't on Ovie,.
Its quite obvious that Colon Campbell still has it in for the Rangers.He disgusts me. Just like your comments on 9/11 and Iraq.

Have a Happy New Year guys! And to Colon Campbell, "Pull your head outta your butt as its been up there so long its becoming too good of a fit"...

Hate to say I told you so but in this case the NHL did it for me. In the strange and warped way the NHL hands out justice the answer as to why Orr got five while Donald dopehead only one can be see by how our old pal the Clueless One spoke of these suspensions:

'The Rangers player's actions with his stick were reckless and dangerous," NHL disciplinarian Colin Campbell said in a statement. "Although no injury resulted, the action is unacceptable."

Please let me translate, Use your fists when sucker punching is OK DOKEY but using a stick which can lead to media folks ripping us is a no no. After all we are not the NBA.

I know all the anger that will come out: a double standard because Orr attacked a star and Brashear did not, that Soupy hates the Rangers and etc etc etc.

However the reasoning behind the rules on fighting in the last five minutes is also why Orr gets five and the sucker puncher just one. The NHL is so worried about the bad press that results from stick incidents that it is almost like saying "do it earlier not later".

So Margert you bring the cookies, I will bring the milk and Mitch gets stuck with the check. Sorry Mitch but will teach you to be late.

colie gives the Rangers the shaft again. Brashear should have gotten at least 5 games or more, because what he did was a MATCH penalty.

when the linesman is escorting you to the penalty box, that is it, no more crap is allowed, and attacking another player on the way to the box is just as bad as cross-checking a star in the chin.

also, Ovechkin sent Briere head first into the boards with a cheap hit from behind, even though he let up slightly. and Ovechkin got nothing but a fine.

but apparently Campbell has a different standard for Ranger transgressions.

HELLO Tony but whether we like it or not only Orr used a stick as a weapon and that is what is always going to get you a suspension.

It is so easy to blame Campbell but it was Orr who used the stick and got what he rightfully deserved.

To applaud Orr for using a stick when he is supposed to be such a tough guy is disgusting. Drop the stick and use your fists.

By the way Mitch, do you get royalties or a percentage of the subscription fees? Enquiring minds want to know.

Jess, never knew you like cookies that much. Thought it was a prime rib and a baked potato.

TonyM, guess Mitch could have picked a better subject than 9/11 to establish an analogy but as an analogy it was crystal clear what he was trying to say.

Good point about the fists Jess.

In the example I gave about Bathgate, he gave Young, the perpetrator, no option. It wasn't Ovechkin who violated Jagr so Orr dropping the fists with Ovechkin doesn't conform to what Bathgate did.

If the Bathgate analogy applied, Orr would have knocked Breshear's stick out of his hand and pummeled him. Unfortunately for Orr, Breasher is the much better fighter and that would not have worked. Why I would like to see Weller or Lessard skating in Orr's place the next 5 games.

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