Point-Counterpoint With Mitch & Jess

Dubi is on vacation boys and girls and I was honored that he asked me to give you the recap. Unfortunately it's not a Bob Murphy "Happy recap" but more of a disgusted one. Tonight was one MAJOR puzzling game. If you watched this contest, or worse yet actually were in the Coliseum, you realized that it really wasn't much of a contest. After seeing how Coach Renney decided to shake up the lines, my first thought was, man, I haven't heard from Jess in a while. My second thought was, hey, throwing Jason Ward on the first line is sure going to shake things up. I'm sure Blake, Yashin, and Satan were quaking in their boots at the prospect of that.

From the first drop of the puck you could see how intimidated they weren't as they immediately went on the attack and did not let up one iota for 60 minutes. The Rangers seemed to have no motivation whatsoever. They couldn't get anything started, they couldn’t seem to make a pass or have a halfway decent rush. The only decent chance they had was by Adam Hall, who's playing more like Monty Hall and can't make a deal for a goal, but he missed a wide open net with DiPietro down and out. Jagr did not even have a shot on goal until the third period. The Rangers never really threatened in this contest. They were fortunate that the Islanders were shooting everything wide and high, otherwise it could have been much worse. Henrik was stellar in net. I don't fault him on either goal as he was screened by Rachunek on Asham’s, and just a great shot by Blake.

Here are some random thoughts I had while watching the game:

1) I didn't like in the pre-game when Coach Renney said "we should be motivated for this game..." Should be? Isn't that his job, to make sure they "ARE motivated for the game"? I want to hear more definitive statements by the coach.

2) I really did not like the way the lines were made up. Jagr, Nylander, and Straka have been the only functional and productive line all year. Why break them up? Jason Ward to the first line makes no sense whatsoever.

3) Could they bury Petr Prucha any deeper? Going into the second period, Petr only had a little over two, that's right two minutes of ice time.

4) Why is Matt Cullen continuing to play out of position? He's a third line checking center. He knows it, we know it, why doesn't the team know it?

5) I think Brendan Shanahan needs a game off. He looks totally spent out there. He is being WAY overused.

6) Why was Bryce Lampman called up if he isn't going to play, especially when Baranka and Girardi have been playing better and Baranka played with Pock those few games he was in back in Hartford?

7) Someone tell me why Michael Nylander is benched for the third period when Karl Rachunek (who is what, -15 by now?) continues to get uninterrupted ice time. Prucha, who does nothing but throw himself around out there like a ping pong ball on steroids and gets so little time, and Immonen were the beneficiaries as Nylander, Jason Ward, and Hossa sat out just about all of the period.

8) Chris Simon said something interesting. He said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that the Rangers are a very fast team and that you have to slow them down by being physical against them. A very fast team? Is he playing against the same team that we're all watching? Which brings me to the last point…

9) The Rangers have got to be the softest team in the entire NHL. Jagr is getting slammed around. Rangers are getting pushed off of pucks and are putting up as much resistance at the blue line as you get going through the EZ Pass lane at the GWB at 2 AM.

So, it's easy to offer up all of what's wrong. What can be done REALISTICALLY to fix all of it? Well, truth be told, not a whole lot. The Rangers don't have a lot of players that anyone else really covets. There aren't a lot of players in Hartford ready to take the step up. And they are restricted by the cap. That only leaves one potential solution -- a change behind the bench. And I don't really think that's coming any time soon either. Folks, it's going to be a long season. There's a lot of stuff to chew on, but basically, a bad performance that has followed five other bad performances in a row. What's going to turn this around? Well, the staff has until Friday to figure it out...

-- Mitch Beck

Either space aliens or Mitch Beck’s relatives have kidnapped Dubi, as he is claiming to be in Pennsylvania on vacation. C’mon, no Ranger fan goes to Pennsylvania of his own free will. Even worse, he claims he can’t watch the game because they don’t have MSG. Yeah right, interrupting my vacation so you can goof off with ET and Darth Vader. Therefore, he wants me to recap the game for you folks and perhaps provide a logical version in case Mitch has not sobered up enough to do his. In that case, are you guys in trouble, as I am so ticked off by the current nonsense being sold to Ranger fans as to why things are in the toilet. So here goes.

The telecast opens up with our pals Sam and Joey explaining why Tom Renney has changed the lines once again. Blah blah blah, yada yada yada -- the talking heads are just doing their job, but you wonder if even they believe what they are telling us. If you watched the telecast then I will not bore you with those phony details as Renney has changed his lines more times this season than McDonald’s has sold burgers. The truth is when you have lost five games in a row you are either in a state of panic or just right on the edge of it.

OK, why not? If I have to suffer, so will you. Jason Ward who has next to no offense is with Nylander and Jagr; Shanny with Straka and Cullen; Hollweg, Betts, and Hall; and last and really the least, Hossa playing with Immonen and Prucha. Here is why I dislike those lines: You take the best possible counterattackers against the speed of the Islanders (Immonen and Prucha) and bury them on the fourth line. Ward is a checker not an offensive threat -- I would have used Immonen or Prucha there. Hollweg, Hall, and Betts is great if you want a grind it out game, but against the Islanders it will be hard if they dictate the pace with their team speed.

The good news is the Rangers made it a whole minute and half into the game before Ward was blasted from behind by Sean Hill to create a scoring chance for the Islanders. Heck, the first five minutes is “Blast’em Rangers,” the Islanders hitting Rangers every chance they had, that physical play setting the tempo of the period. The Rangers really were not all that outplayed in the scoreless first except when it came to shots on goal and hits. Still, the Isles’ hitting paid dividends later in the game -- they had set both pace and tone for this game and the Rangers simply were no match for it.

The Rangers despite all the physical play had the better offensive chances in the period but one could see the differences in how the teams approach defensive responsibilities. The Islanders use the body to clear out the sight lines for DiPietro. Come close to their crease and expect to be hit hard. The Rangers’ finesse style allows people to skate in with little fear of being hit, to set screens and attack the net. Later, this will cost them this game.

Jason Ward earned the Rangers’ first penalty by not trying to avoid DiPietro (who was playing the puck way too far from the crease). Chris Simon negated the power play by going after Ward, which to be honest I respect because one day I pray a Ranger will defend one of his teammates like Simon did.

Jason Ward got the first scoring chance in the second, but DiPietro was able to see it and gloved it. Shanny takes a hooking call a few moments later and Kaspar then takes a bad penalty in his defensive zone while playing four on four. If not for Lundqvist, the Islanders would have taken the lead as he stopped three straight shots with Blake sitting on his lap. Of course, Hossa, that defensive specialist, fails to clear the puck and helps the Islanders generate a scoring chance.

The Rangers actually went on a power play of their own when Cullen drew one but they did nothing with it. No sooner do I type that out than Asham picks up a loose puck, skates in, and using Rachunek for a screen beats Lundqvist to give the Fish a 1-0 lead. This finesse defense does so much damage -- but not as much as brain dead plays like Nylander taking a double minor for cutting Martinek with his stick. I am sorry, but that kind of play is pure laziness and there is no reason for this constantly happening.

As the second period is winding down, Robatille found Gervais wide open sneaking in from the point with Lundqvist off guard and the Rangers napping on the PK. But he not shot wide. The third period started with Lundqvist making four solid saves, but his teammates never could get control of the puck and Jason Blake finally got one past him. This goal you could see coming -- despite all that Lundqvist was doing, his teammates’ failures to get the puck away from the Isles made the second goal strictly a matter of time.

Down 2-0, it is time to play with some urgency. Now the Rangers start doing what the Islanders have been doing all game long. Sorry folks, but the game is over at this point as the Islanders have dictated the pace and tempo for way too long while hitting the Rangers at every possible moment. They have been swarming, and if not for Lundqvist I would be writing about a bloodbath. Ted Nolan has the Islanders playing at both ends of the ice. This is going to be a team to fear come crunch time. They attack the net and everyone comes back to play defense.

Of course, as I dream about the Rangers playing defense, Dubi’s role model Rachunek takes a penalty to help further send the Rangers on their way to their sixth straight loss, allowing the Islanders to pass them in the standings and take a 3-0 season series lead. As we watch the Rangers drop number six in a row what have we learned girls and boys? That Ted Nolan has enough faith in Tom Poti to play him on defense late in the game says a ton about how much the Rangers blew it by not hiring him when they had the chance. This is not that laughingstock of a franchise we all loved to abuse.

-- Jess Rubenstein

Game reports in the Post, Times, Journal News, Daily News, Newsday, SNY, NYR.com, and NY Sports Day, with additional game notes from Newsday and Rangers Report. Nice article by Emma Span in the Village Voice, unfortunately rendered somewhat obsolete by the ongoing losing streak. Hartford shut out Worcester with a lot of new faces in the line-up. At NYR.com, a brief prospect update and a Ranger-centric report on yesterday's WJC action. Jess's take on the WJC: "The World Juniors opened today and like the Rangers, Team USA was a huge disappointment, upset 2-1 by Germany. Tom Pyatt, Marc Staal, and Marc-Andre Cliche contributed to Canada's 2-0 shutout of host Sweden. Russia, with Artem Anismov, edged the Czech Republic, with David Kvelton, 3-2. Action continues Wednesday."

Comments

[gregg faver]

great points and i couldnt agree more!! i hated the line combos last night...J. Ward on the first line, r u kidding me?
How do u breakup the straka-jarg-nylander line...makes zero sense..and when rosen announced that prucha had the LEAST amount of ice after the first period that just says it all about what a nightmare renney is behind the bench...
At what point does rachunek get the pine...he's now a team worst minus 14!! and mr. hall is right behind him at minus 13...but what does tommy boy due, he decides to bench nylander..why now and that point in the game? is it me or does tom have his favorite whipping boys of nylander, prucha, and darius for the past 2 years...what more or should i say less has to happen before they allow other guys like dawes, callahan, and take your pick of a defense at hartford to replace these under achieving players of rachunek, hossa, hall, and company...
hopefully ort will provide some much needed TOUGHNESS to this team, since the only players who seem to throw a body check are hollweg and prucha....

[lennynyr]

Pock was the best Ranger D on the ice last night, he even elevated Rosival's game to mediocre. I actually saw a guy in a Ranger uniform wearing #3 throw a punch...at the opposition!! That couldn't have been Rosival could it?

Islanders add guys who can hit and the Rangers add guys who can cry, I'll take Wang's management style over Dolan/Sather any day.

[lennynyr]

Hey Jess, how have you been. I picked the right time to drive west as I didn't have to subject myself to this team until last night.

I feel like it's April again. Last season took them to the post Olympics to collapse but this year, it's happening sooner.

Don't agree with Mitch's assessment that we got nobody in Hartford to call up, that's closing the door prematurely. How do we know if they can help if we don't give them a chance?? Why have a farm system if we are afraid to utilize it?

We are doomed as long as Sather/Dolan is in charge, unless thye change their way of thinking and haven't seen any sign of that since they've both been here.

Happy holidays to you.

[fauxrumors]

1) So when do the Shane Doan to the rangers rumors really begin in earnest?

[Mitch Beck]

Lenny;

Jess is the man and knows more about what is going on in juniors than 90% of the Rangers scouting staff.

I am not the only one that feels these kids aren't ready yet. If yo urecall on our Rangers 4 on 4 Brandon Dubinsky said it himself. When you know a lot of these young kids like I do and when you talk to those in the know, as I do, you will hear almost universally that these kids are not ready yet. Are there players that are getting very close? Absolutely! Baranka, Girardi on the D Line wil lbe Rangers next season if they aren't traded...Lampman, up with the big club now has a shot as well. Up front, Ryan Callahan, Nigel Dawes are most likely headed up with Brandon Dubinsky and Greg Moore possibly joining them. If the Rangers continue to slide you may see some of them get in a couple of games this year but I doubt it. I genuinelly think that Dolan wants to raise ticket prices next season and would be willing to give up some future to do it. I think is stupid and so does the rest of those smart enough to know that this plan is as stupid as the Iraq plan was. Think about it. Bush says that we will be greeted as liberators and Sather tells us that New Yorkers can expect a rebuilt team. Same BS, just different lingo.

Thought I would share this little bit of gossip. I'm hearing that the Rangers are in talks with Phoenix to trade Montoya for Jovo-Cop... I say "NO!!!" What say you...

[gregg faver]

im assuming by jovo-cop u mean jovanowski?
if we're giving up just montoya i like move, and here's why..
he's only 30..despite what people r saying henrik is to our goalie of the future so montoya is expendable...now back to Jovo, one huge need of this team is a physical presence on the blue line which we have clearly been lacking since Beukeboom days...i would def be a fan of this move...perhaps we can also package in a kaspar or a malik along with montoya to remove an expensive contract..

[Chris QCT]

Renney set them up to fail with his line combos. The longer this streak goes, the more likely it is that Sather will do something stupid. Say what you will, but I still think Prucha is going to be traded. Same with Pock (and I agree with lennynyr...he played well last night).

It was just another emotion-less, passion-less performance under Tom Renney. That is the difference between Renney and Nolan. Nolan had them come out hard, get the crowd going, and ride the wave. In 1 and 1/2 seasons under Renney, I've noticed that they have not played with much passion. They've lost 6 in a row, been humiliated the last 3, and not one scuffle after a whistle. Not even after J. Blake knocks A. Ward down after an icing call. Now, I know you want to avoid a penalty. But when you NEVER answer the call physically, it effects the mentality of a team. Teammates bond when they stand up for each other. It becomes detrimental when they don't....even when the coach is telling you not to.

[scott lamson]

As much as it would be nice to have a good physical defenseman, You can never be too strong in goal. Recall Blackburn: carreer ending injury working out. The flyers goalie (Pele?) driving his car into a wall. Ortmeyer in training camp.... Henrick could be gone in a heartbeat. Nothing like having Richter and Vanbiesbrouk unless there is an expansion draft coming up. BTW, how would Beuk fare if he were in his prime playing in today's NHL? Could he keep up or would he be getting blown by by faster forwards?

[lennynyr]

OK, enough of that. About the prospects, my point is what do the Rangers have to lose now by trying them out? Give them a 6-8 game stint each and see how they do. Not talking about a Renney time allocation, at least 15 minutes a game. If all of them flop, we can always go back to Hossa, Hall, Orr, Betts, Ward etc.

Don't know how long you have been watching hockey but I've seen guys who came up who nobody thought was ready and they turned heads. I can understand if you have productive players already on all the lines to let the prospects gain even more experience down on the farm. So to me it doesn't matter that you and the braintrust think none of the kids are ready due to the non-productive team that is presently assembled.

[lennynyr]

Mitch, about Jovo. First of all, hear he likes it playing out west and might not want to be with an Eastern team. If he shows a willingness to play for the Rangers, I'd consider it as long as Malik, Rosival, Rachunek and Kasper are gone and Baranka and Giradi join Tyutin, A. Ward, Pock and Jovo.

Goalies are a strange lot. Never know when they reach their pinnacle. Maybe the Rangers can talk Wayne into taking Weekes instead of Montoya.

[Vlo]

Well i think were all missing an important point here. It's pretty easy to see that teams love playing the Rangers. Number one reason is that you know it will not be physically straining. Don't you guys remeber playing. Those games when you knew they had the four players with beards and two kids in the stands at the ripe old age of seventeen were going to punish you every time you touched the puck. There top players skated with impunity because everyone knew about the retribution that will follow. No one takes those games lightly. The Rangers have many 3rd and fourth line players on the team, probably more than any other in the league. However with the exception of Hollweg not one of them are guys that play a physical in your face game. Of course in the "new" NHL you cnt have tree stumps like Orr, Probert, Grimson. But players like Chris Neil, Darcy Tucker (I hate the S.O.B.), Grant Marshall are players that can play the game and would stick up for Jagr who coincidentally has one goal in the past nine while taking nightly beatings by opponents that know thier won't be any physical reprisals. It's disgusting and the essential indicator that the team has no heart, passion or cohesiveness. The turn your cceek mantra developed by our coach is pathetic. These aren't 4 year olds playing in the sand box, these are men fighting for time and space in a 200 foot ice surface! When Witt elbows Jagr last night, Chris Neil would have immediately held him responsible. If Witt cowardly turtles ( most likely) Than Neil runs Yashin through the glass into the first row with a clean hit or throws an elbow and makes Yashin spit a couple of chicklets to the ice. That will never happen with Renney and Sather as our "braintrust".

Secondly, im sorry to say i never liked the idea of Sather coming here. The biggest problem faced by the Ranger organization for many years is that MSG has become the retirement home for players cashing in on past years of success for other teams. We can all name about 20 off the top of our heads. However, thwe biggest fat cat to come to NY and cash in his chips from prior success in a different city has been Sather. This is his retirement! Some get pensions others come to be the G.M. of the NY Rangers "FOR LIFE" and never worry about being accountable for anything. Sather has been a joke for the past 16 years. Let's look at his draft record in the first round. Scot Allison (90), Tyler Wright (91), Joe Hulbig (92), Arnott and Smith Good Picks, Jason Bonsignore (94), Steve Kelly (95), Boyd Deveraux (96), Michel Riesen (97), Michael Henrich (98) and the list goes on. When we complain that vets come to NY to simply collect money, it is only laughable that the man in charge of the operation is the prime culprit. It will never change. We as Ranger fans are immune to it already, because we keep on turning on the TV or attending the games. I know it will never change but on Friday i will watch because no matter what happens my immunity to this organization will always protect me. I laugh at the Florida games. I laugh when Jagr gets crushed. It's a defense technique that prevents me from going insaine. So don't worry Ranger fans the era is here, the rebuild is in full swing. We won't have to see fat cats not being held accountable, we will see determine play by hungry players, a youth movement is upon us, look at the Ranger website "Future Blue"! Well im turning Blue! It will never change!

[Vlo]

Sorry for posting this twice. I think it makes me feel better getting stuff off my chest. I think we all may need some type of therapy after the Sather/Dolan regime is all said and done. I feel that I will probably be in a padded room, with an entire team of therpaist tracking my condition. It will be diagnosed "Rangeritis". The stupidity of watching and cheering for an organization that routinely goes against logic and continues to screw their fans.

[Phill]

Last night's game was depressing. The lack of motivation was actually affecting ME. Me the viewer. Watching the game on the T.V. I went from being incredibly into the game (probably more so than some of the actual Rangers playing) to completely lethargic and unmotivated (probably just as much as some of the actual Rangers playing). But after some thinking, I came to the conclusion that there are a couple things that need to happen. I also made some various observations.

1) Kaspartitis has a penchant for taking some penalties that are regrettable, BUT we need this guy. Like most of the season, without him in our lineup, we truly are the softest team in the NHL.

2) Pock was solid last night. I liked his and Rosival's pairing.

3) Tyutin makes mistakes but they guy is fairly young. I believe he will be a solid d-man in the future. A. Ward also had a pretty solid game shutting down Blake for most of the game (with the exception of the goal).

4)The Ranger's really need a 2nd line center. I'm sorry to admit this (and I'll probably get burned at the stake for saying this) but we need to trade for someone. . . We need Forsberg. The Flyers are probably the only team worse than us this season. If he comes, stays healthy for the rest of the season, we offer him a nice contract extension and we have him for as long as we have Jagr around. Now, who would trade for him? That's anyone's bet. I don't think I'd give up Prucha for him.

5) Weekes for Jovo would be a steal. Montoya for Jovo is a more fair trade leaning more towards the Rangers. We'd be giving up an un-proven goalie for Jovo who is a monster. We need a presence like that. This would also make Malik expendable.

6)If this slide continues two more games, Renney should be fired upon the completion of the 8th game. It's apparent this isn't his team anymore. No one cares about what he has to say or lack there of. The benching of Nylander was ridiculous. I realize the penalty was careless but seriously, what about Racheneuk? How is he any less of a culprit? Give me a break.

7) 2 minutes of ice time for Prucha has to stop. He should have at least 7 minutes of ice time.

8) The lines were ridiculous. It was almost like an Islander fan set up the Ranger's starting line up. "Yeah, this is a terrible line up. What a joke, I'm sure Jagr would love to play with Jason Ward.", says a random Islander fan.

9) For the love of God, get Shanahan OFF THE PENALTY KILL. I know he has great experience and has a killer shot but THIS ISN'T 5 YEARS AGO. He's not young. Stop killing the guy on the PK. Did Detroit make him do this? I don't think so.

By the way, any update on the Great Hudini Ozo and his disappearing act? For his sake, I hope he realizes it's time to retire. I really do pity him.

[gregg faver]

I feel like Sather & Co. have over stated the New NHL. For some reason Sather feels like because of the new NHL teams should be built with and only Speed. This could not be further from the truth, you still need to have players on the blue line who can intimidate the oppositions forwards, and you still need to have more than ryan hollweg who can play a phyiscal game...One poster above couldn't have said it any better, for a team that has more 3rd and 4th lines that most teams in the NHL it is quite amazing how weak we are in the physical department...

Back to the jovo for montoya rumour, there is absolutely ZERO chance Wayne takes Weekes instead....and what is the point of keeping montoya buried in hartford...if the right deal comes up you have to pull the trigger...dan blackburn was a freak accident...

[Ed]

Im not sure Phoenix would take montoya for jovo, thats ridiculous, montoya is not ready for the nhl, jovo hasnt been stepping up to much for gretzky's boys, but as far as a trade goes i doubt they'll give up there big aquistion, there getting good goaltending from tellqvist, if anything they need a foward who they can count on, and nagy and doan havent been there for them to often. But if the trade happened i wouldnt mind, i just wish the rangers could of signed Chris Pronger, but thats one thing the rangers need now, a good defensmen, if the rangers are forced to trade then those are the kind of players we need, you seen how jagr got hit last night, someone needs to protect him, let the enemy know that there gonna step up and protect there team, look at the hits prucha took in the season so far, one in particular was from jovo himself. But i still sand by the fact that renney has to be fired, bring in anyone, messier or graves for all i care, mike kitchen is still avilable.

[Thordic]

Get Bam Bam back.

[P4B]

I would think the deal would involve more than just Montoya for Jovo...I would imagine Nagy and or Doan could be had also...acquiring Doan would hinge on the Rangers being able to work out a new contract prior to pulling the trigger.

[saget]

Maybe someone can confirm this, but didnt Jagr actually say at one point that he LIKED playing with Jason Ward? I swear I heard this comment from somewhere (maybe it was Renney). So to me, the lines last night were another example of the Coach coddling the Superstar. Whether thats the right approach or not, i don't know.

[Thordic]

When Nylander was out with the flu, Jagr requested that Ward center him and Straka. Who knows why.

Renney needs to stick with Nylander - Immonen - Cullen - Betts down the middle until/unless we get another center.

[chardkerm]

Keep the kids in Hartford until the current administration is the #*%# out of here. Otherwise, their spirits will be crushed.

[Arbult]

I'm also getting tired of Renney and his over-stressed idea that "We're going to learn from this and come out a better team!"

Newsflash: the only thing this crop of Rangers is learning is that there is no accountability, no reward for hard work and no hope of losing jobs to younger, hungrier players. It's pre-2005 season all over again.

[Gordie Howe]

they might as well just quit pretending, and say it straight out. GEEZER BLUE.

Rangers will trade all young players and prospects for established big name players. they will focus only on the here and now. players under 30 will be looked at suspiciously.

I will come out of retirement and play for the Rangers. we will have Leetch and harry Howell on D. Duguay says he is ready, Gilbert and Greschner and Maloney are ready. Stemmer is in his usual shape. Eddie G. will man the nets again. and the Cat will be the coach-GM.

Messier and Graves will be the kids on the team, so they might have to go to Hartford, because kids are not ready for the NHL.

[Ralph]

i think the rangers should get nagy and jovo and then they need to swing a trade for like boogard or fedoruk or tootoo thats wut i think they need

[pghas]

Phill - If Forsberg "stays" healthy? Problem is that he is not remotely healthy to begin with. Put a fork in that guy, he's done. If he still had his health, he'd probably be great, but then Philly would be a whole lot better.

Also the idea that acquiring Jovo would make Malik expendable is laughable at best. Malik is completely expendable. The issue is he's one of several guys with a big contract that nobody in the league wants. If he weren't playing for us he'd be playing for nobody, just like the pre-lockout days. It's not like everyone's asking about Malik and the Rangers wont part with him.

[Phill]

Pghas,

If we acquired Forsberg for less to nothing and he did nothing the rest of the season (whether by injury or non-production), what's the loss there? Now lets say he turned our season around and pushed us into the playoffs and possibly beyond. Then awesome. And regardless of which situation were to occur, his contract is up and that is that.

I'm NOT saying we should trade all our future and 15 1st round picks but if we can get him at a bargain price, then great. If not, we shouldn't do the trade.

When I said Malik is expendable, I meant "dump Frankenstein into Hartford" or waive him. Whichever. I did not mean that he would be trade bait.

[Ralph]

malik is not even playing and u guys ant him out the whole six game losing streak he hasnt played.
look at him last year he was good for us so give him a break hes having a bad year i garentee he would play very well for another team. its that the whole team is not clicking like they did last year.i believe they will turn it around. only time will tell next game they will end this streak.

[Ed]

I like the idea of trading for someone like boogard or tootoo, those are guys i like in the line up especially boogard, hes probaly hands down the best fighter in the league, we need tough guys at least one, hollweg and orr are tough but hollweg cant fight and gets thrown around like a toy against tough apponets like for example the 3 or 4 fights where janssen annihalated him. As far as orr goes hes not that tough of a guy and has taken alot of dumb penalties this season. If rangers can get boogard then thats good. Jovo would be interesting i wouldnt rule he idea out, but i would like to get an extra like nagy or doan. But what ever happens it needs to be soon.

[Gordie Howe]

I love how guys who can't lift Phoenix or St. Louis out of their losing ways are all of a sudden capable of turning around the Rangers. please.

[orangedan]

Regarding the Montoya for Jovonovski rumors, I'm pretty sure I remember reading on spectorshockey.net and thefourthperiod.com that Nabakov/Toskala or Giguere/Bryzgalov were dangled out there for Jovo earlier this season. All four are number one goalies, that have proven themselves at the NHL level already. I also hate the Lundqvist is the future nonsense. He's struggling in his second season! Is he likely to pull out of it and regain his form, absolutely, he's already doing it. But there is nothing preventing Montoya from stealing his job. Kipper started as a backup and coudln't take Nabokov's job. Now Nabokov is fighting for his job and Kipper is the defending Vezina winner.

As far as a big time hitter on the D-line I have to agree we sure could use one, but I think the real problem is these guys have no system and they've bought into nothing. On paper we are a more skilled team than last year, but last year we were simply a better team because we played like one. Oddly enough our strength was not having a true second line. Because of the Czech influence, line one and two generated offense using the cycle, and lines three and four largely played defense. HMO and Betts/ward/whoever didn't do much offense, but they were very responsible defensively. They tried to use the european style "skate to open spaces" deal, but they weren't skilled enough to do it. However, the team all played the same way, and bought into a system.

This year, this losing streak especially we look lost. The only dominant line is Jagr/Nylander/Straka, and that's because they still play inside Renney's system. We brought in Hall, Shanahan, Cullen, etc. to start playing a NOrth American game, probably because some member of the brain trust thought we'd be a better team if we could have a european and north american attack. Throw off opposing defense. The end result is it threw off our system. Jagr and co play their way, Shanny and co play their way, and lines three and four aren't made up of the same guys long enough to figure out how to play. One week Immonen is the playmaker for line two, the next a defensive center. He's luckier than Prucha, that guy has a new job every shift. We screwed up a great young talented player named Lundmark the same way a few years ago.

Bottom line, this team needs to start believing in itself again. I don't know if that means Jagr as Capt, Shanny, Straka, Nyls, and Jags and vets, or Renney. My gut tells me its Renney, but no matter how you look at it, they have to start playing like a team before they can win. There is no magic trade that gets you team cohesion. Not Rucinsky, Not Jovo-Cop, not Shane Doan, and certainly not Peter Foresburg who like Shanny and Jagr is a reluctant captain at best.

Here is hoping that they wake up

[chardkerm]

Going after Billy Guerin will not only cost us youts, and block icetime for the youts we already have, but will dig us deeper into the hole of failure that our "brain trust" have dug for us over the years. If we're gonna go after someone, it should be, for example LeCavelier or Richards from cap-strapped TB.

[mhurley]

OrangeDan,

Great post!

Eurostyle is passing East/West and No American is fast north/south. Why is it that other teams (the Red Wings) can integrate the two styles and we can't. I don't think it's so much the conflict between our players styles. I think anyone can play both systems when called upon to do so. You just have to be able to change gears and recognize that when you play a North/South team who are forcing the play like the Fish did last night, you play NO/SO too and beat them at their own game.

I see Jagr doing the same things game in and game out. He must try to adapt. Maybe he doesn't feel he should have to be the one to adapt. That's unfortunate because they all need to play as a team on the same page.

[chardkerm]

Re: my Guerin comment. That debate is going on over on Weinman's board, not here. So I guess I must be suffering from cross-over-itis. Sorry. Carry on.

[Ralph]

not saying names but are u serious about saying lundqvist is not or francise goalie.
i believe lundqvist is still one of the best goalies in the league. i think if u put kiprusuff
luongo gigure on the rangers they will get there asses burnt just like lundqvist is getting.

[CzechPosse]

In addition to Forsberg, Jovo, Guerin we should go after Roenick, Nolan, LeClair all household names, over thirty and cheap.

They all fit into our system and coach.

[Jess]

I will have a report on Canada as expected whipping Team USA 6-3 thanks in part to Tom Pyatt and Michael Sauer's escape from Portland to a good Medicine Hat team.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG HERE PLEASE?

The REAL enemy here is not each other but the clowns who are sending the Rangers back to the dark ages. Losing causes frustration and we are all very frustrated at the current crap the Rangers are putting out.

[orangedan]

Ralph,

Even though you didn't say my name, I'll still answer you. Yes, I'm saying that it's just stupid to declare a player a franchise goalie before he finishes a second season with you. Ask Washington fans if they remember a guy named Jim Kary. That being said I'm by no way advocating a goalie trade, nor am I knocking Ludnqvist in any way. I too think he is the future and he deserves playing time, and in all liklihood as soon as Weekes gets traded or has his contract expire at the end of this season Montoya will be up with the big club backing up OUR boy.

All I was pointing out was that Montoya is the future TOO and it's never a bad idea to have a solid, young backup pushing your starter and keeping him honest. You also never know what could happen; Blackburn and Richter/Beezer were two examples mentioned, but there are others. He could challenge and win the starters job. He could be a complete flop that goes nowhere like Dan Cloutier. Point is we have no idea about him, and we only have a small idea about Lundqvist and I think it's too early to start counting our chickens.

Mhurley,

You may be right and the two styles could be integrated, but I just don't see Tommy boy doing that, or at least his team implementing it. I don't think that is his plan in any event, recall that Malik commented playing on the Jagr/Straka/Nylander line was different than any other line because he could take slapshots and hope for screens, deflections, or rebounds because those 3 don't play that way.

I've also noticed that we have some inexplicable fixation on size and "physicality." I use the term loosely as Hall, Hossa, Ward, Betts, and Orr are all "physical" players. I think the braintrust feels we got bullied about in the playoffs last year and are determined to ice a team of bigger players so that they won't get pushed around. The result is we sacrafice skill for size. We're still getting pushed around, so maybe somebody should explain that bigger skill guys will get pushed around just as much as smaller skill guys, and being big doesn't equal being physical - ask Holloweg.

I'm also not sure I agree with you about the N/S game against the Isles. When Jags is in the mood him and his style of play can dominate anybody. Ignoring the turnovers in gaining the zone, and the fact that he didn't have Straka to do it, I noticed a few times we got the cycle set up. I also noticed Jsson Ward shooting when he wasn't in the best position to and Nyls or Straka would have turned and looked to pass. Not that his shots weren't appreciated and badly needed, just that he doesn't cycle well.

The problem is the speed component, which requires at least 5 players to show up and skate hard all game. Great as he is, Jagr isn't going to consistantly beat 1-3 matchups, especially where Witt can hit him at will, however he wants, whenever he wants without getting called. NOTE, while this is a gripe about officiating, if the refs won't stop this then SOMEBODY ON THE TEAM NEEDS TO. The European cycle style we used last year still works (when others are skating) if they double team jags, Straka and Nylander out hustle on the mismatch until they can shoot or Jags breaks free. It's a fun style to watch, and their puck possession aspect is great for D. Too bad Jason Ward is only a checking forward and can't play that style.

listen to me, blah blah blah. Please Tom Renney or anybody that knows him or sees him or can yell at him, stop hoping we wake up and implement a friggin system. 1 line and a powerplay does not a playoff contender make (I don't care how good our "franchise" goalie is)

[Ed]

Whoa going after roenick is a bad idea, the guy needs to retire, if it was at least 3 or 4 years ago then maybe, but now hes sluggish he doesnt get along with teamates, he wants to be the guy doing everything, ive seen how hes been playing in Phoenix , but on another note... What this organization needs to do is fire renney for starters, get rid of guys like malik or who ever, dont bring in czech players just to please jagr, you min as well just let jagr manage and coach the team, its team rangers not team jagr.

[Dubi]

First thing, I have to take the blame for interpreting Renney's comments about Jason Ward playing on the first line. The first time it happened, I asked Renney about it, and his response was (and this is a complete unedited quote): "We practiced that way in the past when Michael's not been there. We've used Wardo with Jags occasionally and they seem to have some chemistry there. If that's the way Strak and Jags are able to play and they like that combination, then I'll work to that if they feel good about it." When I first posted that quote on Dec 8th, I added: "Translation: Jags asked for Wardo."

I still think that's pretty much what Renney was saying -- but he never stated flat out that it was done strictly because Jagr wanted it that way. We know that last year Jagr got Prucha ice time with the first unit and on the power play and no one had any problem with that the way that turned out. Has Jagr advocated for Prucha this season? I don't know. Has he advocated for JWard over Prucha? I highly doubt it, but I really don't know for sure.

On a second subject, I am the sole arbiter on this site on proper language and respect. I've edited two posts in the past two days -- Justine's and Lenny's. Both posters had good things to say and just needed to have a few potentially offensive words deleted or changed. The substance of their posts was not changed in the least (except perhaps Justine's anger). I hope both posters continue to participate in our discussions here, as Lenny has.

I deleted all of Captain Ego's posts and banned him completely after the last one -- I would have done so earlier had I caught it sooner, but I'm on vacation and not sitting at the computer working and monitoring things all day long. I don't care if this guy has anything constructive to say (I don't even read his posts) -- he's lost all privileges here for life.

This is not a democracy -- I pay for this site and work hard to maintain it and will do so to my own personal standards. My personal standards do not include editing, deleting, or banning posters because of their opinions. But lack of respect will not be tolerated, as even a couple of Blueshirt Bulletin writers can attest, having had some of their comments edited or deleted for that reason.

The language doesn't bother me personally, but it may bother other readers and it certainly detracts from the level of respect I hope to maintain here. We have learned for a fact that the people we write about sometimes read what we write, and if we hope to get any messages across to them, we should strive to do so in the most respectful way possible. Although those folks are certainly not shrinking violets when it comes to language or criticism, they will just as certainly tune out anything that comes across as unreasoned or unreasonable.

But the bottom line on the language issue is that the alternative is for me to create a dictionary of banned words. You've all had experiences on sites where banned words cause seemingly legitimate entries to be blocked -- this course will just cause more work for you and me, so I'd rather not take it. We rarely have problems of this sort here -- this horrendous losing streak has everyone on edge. So let's get past this, as we hope the team will.

[Joe McG]

Yikes here come the rumors. First the returns of Nedved, Rucinsky and earlier this season, Dvorak. Does anyone have Jan Hlvac' Praque phone number? Now it's Jovo-Cop and Billy Guerin. How are we fiting Jovo's $7 million (pro rated of course) contract in? He has a "no trade" clause too. Sheeeeesh, who makes this stuff up?
That being said, as I zip around on my Centre Ice package and watch Phaneuf, Reghyr, Souray, Orpik, Komisarek, Whitney, Coburn, Seabrook, it turns my stomach when reality returns with visions of sugarplums like Malik, Rozsival and Rachunek dance in my head. We definitely need an "edge" on defense. It's not down the road either, watching Marc Staal today poke checking away. Man, what I would do for one of the Johnson boys (Jack or Eric), or even Luc Bourdon!!!

[craigz]

First things first: I moved to Pennsylvania way back in '73 and am glad I did. Dubi could have come over to my house and watched the Izlander feed on Direct TV. (This could be the last year I shell out for this crappy game). Let me read some of the rants, and I'll be back...Z

[AnT]

GUYS WE LOST 6 IN A ROW WE ABOUT TO BE 4TH IN OUR DIVISION AND U FIGHTING EACH OTHER OVER FOUL LANGUAGE.CMON U WONNA TAKE YOUR ANGER OUT GO BEAT UP ISLANDER FANS ESSPECIALLY WHEN THEY CHANTING "U CANT BEAT US". IVE BEEN READING THIS FIGHT THE WHOLE DAY ONE OF YOU GOT TO JUST STOP REPLYING TO THE OTHER.WE ALL RANGER FANS HERE (HOPEFULLY) AND IN TIMES LIEK THIS WE SUPPOSED TO STICK WITH EACH OTHER AND NOT FIGHT OVER SOME POOP (I SAID POOP SO I DONT GET INTO A FIGHT WITH ONE OF YOUS)LOL.

NOW I CANT BELIEVE I SAY THIS BUT DID ANYONE NOTICE SINCE WE LOST MALIK WE JUST GET DESTROYED.I GUESS HIS TURNOVERS HELPED US.I JUST HOPE TOMMY WONT TAKE KASPAR OUT.

WHY RENNEY DONT PLAY HOLLWEG ON THE PK.RYAN GOT SPEED HE ALWAYS GETS TO THE PUCK BEFORE ANYBODY ELSE.IMMONEN AND PRUCHA NEED TO BE THERE TOO.

IVE BEEN JAGRS FAN ALL MY LIFE.BUT HONESTLY JAGR LOST HIS TOUCH.COULD BE THE SHOULDER BUT DAMN HE STILL THINKS HES IN HIS 20s HE TRIES TO SKATE IN TO THE ZONE WHEN THERES 3 PLAYERS WAITING FOR HIM AND INSTEAD OF HIM PASSING HE TURNS THE PUCK OVER.NOW I KNOW IF THERE WAS NO JAGS WE WOULDVE SUCKED MORE THAN WE DO NOW.JAGS IS AN INCREDIBLE PLAYER BUT I DONT THINK HES A CAPTAIN MATERIAL.

IF RENNEY KEEPS PLAYING JAGR SHANNY STRAKA THE WAY HES PLAYIN THEM NOW THEY GOING TO DIE BEOFRE THE SEASON IS DONE. LOOK AT SHANNY U CAN SEE HOW SLOW HE GOT COMPARING TO THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON.

O AND RENNEY WHAT A LESSON U TAUGHT THE WHOLE TEAM BY BENCHING NYLANDER THE WAS THE MOST STUPIDIST THING HE DID IN A WHILE NEXT TO PUTING WARD ON THE 1ST LINE AND IMMO AND PRU ON THE 4TH. WELL WEL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN OTT I JUST PLAY TO EVERYTHING WE DONT DROP 7.

[ivrydov]

One player I think could help the Rangers is Doug Murray, D for the Sharks. He's seventh on their depth chart. He's a Swede, great bodychecker, stay at home, but in the minors had a scoring touch and was all-American in college. Plus 1 this year.

[Dan]

Dubi,Mitch,Jess...Until you use the website stats that are available to you and see that some people are posting under different names from the same IP the message board will continue to look how it did yesterday,unfortunately you cannot reason with some people and their multiple personas who only make your lives miserable and take the fun out of it for the rest of us who come to read your views.

[chardkerm]

MITCH: Agreed.

[Dubi]

Dan, I do see the IP addresses, and no one used the same address under different names to add any fuel to the fire yesterday -- although I can't distinguish AOL users, they all seemed legit yesterday. This was a bona fide argument between several commenters with no other mischief taking place, as far as I can tell. There is one guy I know who uses different names -- I've stopped responding to him because of that, but he has not to date written anything harmful or disrespectful, he's just trying to be funny.

Everyone else -- I have deleted or edited every post from yesterday that was not hockey-related, no matter who wrote it or what the subject matter was, harmless or not. It was the only way I could think of to deal with this situation without taking sides. I hope y'all can understand that. Sorry it came to that -- let's get on with the hockey season and not worry about this stuff anymore.

[lennynyr]

Dubi, well done. Board looks a lot better.

[Steve]

Longtime Ranger fan from New Jersey, now in North Carolina for over 20 years, I probably deserve medal for watching WAY too many Blueshirt games on satellite. Sat through the demise of the original six, expansion, Eddie-Eddie, '79, uniform change, good times, THE CUP, Gretzky, the Purge, the strike, and now, presumably, a resurgence of youthful exhuberance. I agree that we've got to get rid of non-productive, non-hitting players and go with an infusion of young, energetic players. Jagr and Shanahan are great HOFs, but, after last year's insistent that we're on a youth movement, we should expect young players ONLY. NOT trades for more over-the-hill, living-off-their-resume players. It's exciting to watch Lundqvist, Tyutin, Prucha, et al as they cut their baby teeth in the bigtime. Be wary. I always remember the Rick Middleton-for-Ken Hodge trade. EVEN UP! Worst trade ever in the history of sports. Patience and discipline, hallmarks from last year, must be restored.