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August 04, 2008

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Good read. I think it's actually difficult to say whether or not we'll hate this deal in four years when Redden is older because I think defensemen are a different lot and often can play into their mid to late 30's without giving up a whole lot; some, like Nik Lidstrom and Matthieu Schneider and Scott Niedermayer, even seem to improve with age. Regardless, I think Redden feels he has much to prove and will want to really make a great showing in a blueshirt. My money says this turns out to be a good signing.

If I could give Redden one piece of advice - and in fact I'd tell Kalinin this too - it would be that during your first few games at the Garden, place a little extra focus on delivering a few bone-crunching hits. A few of those early in your blueshirt career can set a tone with the Garden faithful and win them over quickly which is very important here.

It seems like the Rangers brain trust is skeptical of the Top Line, Top Pair construction that teams like Ottawa and Tampa Bay were trying to run. The Rangers have abandoned that model, essentially the moment they signed two high quality centers.

The Top Line, Top Pair model works in some ways because the best players play a giant amount of minutes at the highest level, and can be enough to just overwhelm less capable opponents.

However, the signing of two centers last July, and the signing of two high quality defensemen this year, certainly indicates the Rangers commitment to diversification. I think that Gomez and Drury are similar in concept as center 1a and 1b to Redden and Rozsival as dman 1a and 1b. Their abilities to log 25+ minutes means that they can both anchor the power play for a full two minutes, letting the forwards train as treos instead of two fully separate power play units. This will allow the Rangers to evolve a power play, as opposed to being forced to use a specific incumbent strategy.

Redden and Rozsival have another similarity to Gomez and Drury. They are not clear cut superstars. Gomez is and will probably be one of the top 30 centers in the league for most of his contract, and Drury is for now clearly in the top 60, they are both closer to the bottom of their groups than we would like.

The same goes for Redden and Rozsival. They are both high level defensemen in this league, but it is not clear if both are even in the top 30, though probably both in the top 60. While few teams can boast two top 30 defensemen, the Rangers are hoping that Redden plays back up to that level, and Rozsival continues to improve. Maybe the Ranger's will have two top 30 defensemen, but probably not.

On paper, a team with a center and defensemen in the top 15-30 players at their position, and another cender and D in the 30-45 range should average out to the dead middle of the pack. The point becomes clear...for the Ranger's to finish where they have the past three years, in the middle of the playoff pack, Henrik Lundqvist will need to continue to improve as a goalie and a leader in this league. He represents the one exceptional mark on the Rangers roster...A goaltender, not just in the top 30 in the league, but in the top 3. And the youngest member of the group. Midway through the Gomez and Redden contracts, and with one more year for Rozsival and Drury, Henrik Lundqvist will (god willing) be the best goaltender in the league. And that can go a long way.

one more month one more month oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!!

For me, I'd like to hear more from Redden than just "a change of scenery will do me good blah blah blah." When I read what our young D men say (Sanguinetti and del Zotto) I think these kids both have their heads screwed on right. They're actually thinking about the future, etc. I want to hear what Redden has to say--I want a vision. Something more.....

zg, you make some good points, but Gomez is barely one of the top 30 centers in the league? I don't think so. He is one of the top 5-6 players in the world in terms of carrying the puck up ice and breaking the trap and one of the best passers in the NHL. No he doesn't score a lot of goals, but he is so good at doing some very important things, and he is in his prime.

Ranking players is difficult because there are many great players whose skills are a little different, but after you get past a handful of superstars like Crosby and Lecavelier and Thornton, Gomez is in the next tier with 6-8 other centers.

I also agree with pghas. I am less worried about giving a long-term contract to a defenseman than a forward because defense skills are less prone to breaking down with age. A lot of defensemen play well into their late 30s, even past age 37.

Ottawa's goaltending was so subpar at the end of the year with all the turmoil caused by the Emery situation, it would be hard to judge plus-minus. Players on the ice are penalized for a weak goal against.

IMO, I think Redden will play well in NY. He has something to prove and I don't think he just forgot how to play.

Great write-up, lots of quotes and info from "outside NY". I think Redden will be fine. In 2-3 years his $6.5MM contract will be average, so we should be able to move him if he continues to play well and we need to make room for younger, offensive D'men.

What about the impact on the PP? Well, I felt that our PP let us down last year as did many here. However, looking at the stats, I'm not sure. We finished in the top 10 of PP opportunities, actually 7th, with 370 PPO's. We were the worst in that top 10 on % at 16.5%. If we converted at a rate of the average of those top 10 we would have a 19.38% conversion rate. That's 11 more PP goals or a total of 71, or tied for 14th overall in the league. Would 11 more PP goals been the difference in our season? Some of those could have come at a very critical spot in a game and maybe we could have had 5 more victories. That's 10 more points, so I'm not saying that wouldn't be important. But, it seems to me, the even strength goals is where the problem was, not the PP as everybody seems to think. We were 22nd in team scoring at 205 goals. 11 more PP goals simply doesn't seem that much to make a change in the season.

I do think that a PP goal in a one goal game can be the thing that breaks us out and leads to 1 or 2 more goals. So the PP is very important. So one feeds the other. The key is more goals overall and the additions on defense we made should help in goal differential. Hopefully Redden, Staal, Rozsival and Girardi can help the PP and Dawes, Zhredov, Nasland, Drury and Dubinsky can pick up their even-strength and PP scoring.

Some good points Rangerbill...by using your numbers, if the Rangers could have registered five more victories with eleven more power play goals than they would have won the division and been number one in the conference. The power play inability last year was very glaring..it just didn't work. The PP was very predictable..even as just a fan watching, one could know how it was going to set up, what passes were coming..and so on. A better power play is a must and overall better goal production in general is mandatory. Looking at a bigger picture...the Rangers were #5 overall in the league in goals against and somewhere around #22 overall in goals scored...that's a huge discrepency which needs to be improved on.

As far as the offense goes, here's a little interesting note, for what it's worth anyway. With the departure of five Rangers forwards(Jagr,Straka,Avery,Hollweg, and for now Shanahan)that takes off 79 goals (and 116 assists)off last years goals total. At this point by adding five new forwards (Naslund,Rissmiller,Voros,Zherdev,Fritsche), based on last years stats, they bring onto the Rangers a total of 76 goals (and 93 assists). Again, that's based on last years totals but suprisingly enough the goal totals are about the same for the 'old' and the 'new' players. It think it's safe to say that in order for the Rangers to have better goal production than last year, the forwards coming back from last years team need to produce better and hopefully the 'new' additions can either equal or surpass their numbers from last year. Interesting to say the least.........

Paulinflorida,

If you take this line of thinking of yours further than you can clearly see that Rangers should score more goals this year:

1. Naslund had a down year last season and should improve his total goals scored in new environment and system.
2. Zherdev is continuing to develop and also should score more goals than last year.
3. Voros / Fritshe (and other new 4th line options) are by definition better than last year's 4th line unit.
4. And most importantly Dubinsky, Dawes & Callahan are almost guaranteed to prodice MUCH better number than what they did last year.

Funny how you should mention the rumors about Redden being on drugs because I had a guy here doing work for me on Friday who told me he has friends in Ottawa who know Redden and told this guy he has drug problem. I never heard this before and not to say its true but who knows. We know what NY did to Theo Fleury. I like the fact that Redden moves the puck up quickly because this was a weak area in my estimation last year and limited the attack to a degree. The defenceman have to be able to skate well(unlike Malik) to avoid the forecheck and hit the forwards in full stride. If this happened more often then we'd get more goals on odd man rushes.

Dubi - very good move stopping the comments finally. The guy you booted is totally out of control on Sam's blog.

I would much rather read quality comments than quantity of total bs. And i'm sure this will make your life a little and maybe a lot easier.

so good luck to you with BB+ and certainly good luck to our Rangers.

Kovazub94....first off, I like your posting address. It's certainly the hope the Rangers can score more goals than last year. Can't agree with you more that the fourth line options are much better than the last few years...hands down there should be more goals scored and I really think that Dan Fritsche was a real 'sleeper' in the Columbus deal and will make a big impact on this team. One has to be excited about Zherdev's and Naslund's potential to put pucks in the net while Dubinsky, Dawes and Callahan will be given every chance to continue building on last years success. Hey who knows, those three could easily be 20 goal scorers which I think could be in reach for them this season.

"Redden himself explained that he chose to leave Ottawa..."

hahahahahahah, he's really giving himself too much credit. Ottawa wasnt bringing him back; they didnt want him anymore.

I, for one, this the deal they gave Redden is ridiculous and moronic. His actual salary is $8 million everyone ($6.5 against the cap). EIGHT MILLION FOR THIS GUY FOR THE NEXT SIX YEARS.

Lets look at the other players who's salarys are less:

Chara $7.5
LIDSTROM $7.45
Campbell $7.1
Phaneuf $7
Niedermayer $6.75

All Norris trophy winners and nominees for the Norris.

While I was happy to see the Rangers picked up Redden, I was floored by the amount and length of his contract. Lets hope his "fresh start" works out well.

Even Pronger is getting $6.25 & Mike Green just got $5.25.

Again this is not the cap hit; this is the actual dollar value of each contract.

Pronger signed his contract in 2005 (I think).

Green is a 23-year-old third-year pro.

Dubi, great article. I think we tend to forget just how young 31 still is. We didn't sign this guy at the end of his career. He is still young and there is no reason why he can't have a great year. I was always impressed with him as a solid D-man. He is not a superstar, but he is the type of D-Man who can be a number 1 on the top pair and anchor a defense.

And I also agree that it was a GREAT move to get control of the idiotic posters who engaged in flame wars. Much better to read posts about HOCKEY!

Thanks.

I have to admit I am not uncomfortable with either the length or dollar amount in the Redden contract.

Had the contract been for fewer years and maybe a million a season less then I would not be as concerned.

I also get nervous giving any player over 30 clauses that limit movement.

When I look at the Rangers over the next 2-3 seasons I see Sanguinetti as ready next season, Sauer in 2 years and Del Zotto in 3.

I hope that Redden plays well but the Rangers have also put themselves into a corner where if he does not then there is not much the Rangers can do with him.


I think BB+ became the #1 place to talk hockey/Rangers in the web. What a pleasure to come to this site and read hockey related material only. I love it! Thanks Dubi (and yes, Jess, you too).

effigy - average salary in terms of cap $ and real $ have to match up over life of contract. so i don't see where you are getting the redden numbers

Avangard Omsk has started playing their pre-season games. In a first one against a Slovakian team I never heard of before Avangard won 6:3. Cherepanov scored a hat trick and Jagr had two assists.

I do like everything up here!
Only hockey related comments, great Rangers material and…website color. 

I am curious regarding Kundratek supposedly coming over for training camp and possibly signing a deal with the Rangers.

If there is no PTA and the NHL/NHLPA bars teams from working out individual arrangements for the rights of players then how exactly can Kundratek be allowed to come over to sign with the Rangers?

We are dealing with basically the exact kind of situation that existed with Cherepanov where his team was wanting compensation for his release.

I do not believe this will be happening especially under the current IIHF/NHL/KHL climate.

TK is still under contract with Trinec so unless they release him outright with no compensation then he is not going to sign with the Rangers.

The other area I am curious about is how many players do the Rangers have under the 50 contract limit.

The franchise should be very close to that number by now


I would have to say that assessment and ranking of Renney is right on the mark. He's got his work cut out for him this year and how the team performs will go a long way in determining if heshould be upgraded to elite status. Dave Tippett BTW should be in the elite group. And that guy at the Post is misinformed if he thinks a monkey is running the show. Hardly, we know its a genius, Coconut Joe, a legend in his own mind.

Anybody know where i can watch Omsk games online

Ant,

Maybe your question should be better addressed at www.sports.ru

Here's where I got Omsk score from yesterday and the related discussion.

http://www.sports.ru/hockey/5394188.html?comments=1#comments

Thanks

http://www.beyondtheblueshirts.com/2008/08/jagr-takes-cherepanov/

Yes, sometimes I ask him about the NHL. Jaromir knows that I have been invited there, and once said: “You want to play in the NHL - train more.” After these words I began to work even harder. By the way, after each practice Jaromir works extra with me: shows me all kinds of techniques, teaches me how to shoot, tells me how and on what I still need to work. In a way he is one of my coaches.

Blaze, do you think one day we'll see Jagr back with the blueshirts... behind the bench?

I doubt it very much. If I'm not mistaken...he's mentioned that he wanted to end up near his family when he retires. I think his father is building an ice-rink in his hometown. I think he wants to be involved in it in some capacity.

BTW, Avangard won the 2nd game (in two days) of the turnament against Tracktor Chelyabinst 4:2. Neither Jarg's nor Cherepanov's lines participated in that game. Former NHL goalie Graham was in goal for Avangard.

LOL sorry but changing the subject this is a reason why the hockey news is sooooooooooo anti-Ranger

For starters here is more love for Wade Redden:

"They shed the character that was quite often pointed to as the reason for the decline in Ray Emery and a defenseman who many felt had worn out his welcome and usefulness on the Ottawa blueline in Wade Redden."

You know I am not a fan of the Redden signing but the Sens "declined" was way more than just these 2 players. It goes back to allowing Charra to walk and other poorly thought out trades.

Redden struggled but it happened when the entire team did. Linking him with Emery is so very wrong.

Then we have this one regarding Tyutin:

"Fedor Tyutin was let go by the Rangers too easily"

Can we talk here? I liked Fedor but when you have a chance to trade for a player who offers world class skill you do in fact have to give up something of value in return.

Who should the Rangers have given up for Zherdev and Fritche while dumping Backman's salary on someone else?

I know as a Ranger fan I have a bias to defend the team but really it seems that it is almost impossible for members of the Canadian media to write something that does not find ways to kick the Rangers in the rear.

I know the NYR website roster is not finalized as of yet. But after checking in yesterday notice that Nigel Dawes has been removed. I would understand this if he was undecided as to what # he wanted (as is the case with Dan Fitsche). Is a trade coming, any info or rumors?

Jess, thanks for your excellent post/article on NHL double standards dealing with other leagues' players contracts (for members it's on the Prospect Park - the link is on the left side).

Also, I originally thought you had a typo but you did it twice so now I wanted to confirm the spelling of Zdeno Char(r)a last name. Everywhere previously I saw only one "r" - Chara.

Bleed Ranger Blue- That is kind of weird. Its been off all summer, but Dawes has definitely been removed and Jamtin is on the NHL roster. It's also strange, because if you do a search on the site, you can find his page, but his name isn't listed in the drop down list of players, even when you are looking at his page. I know it's probably nothing, but that seems a bit strange.

"Fedor Tyutin was let go by the Rangers too easily"

Unbelievable? Did anyone watch how Tyutin's game deteriorated over the 2nd half of the season, not to mention how God-awful he was in the playoffs? After the signings of Redden and Rozsival, Tyutin was, AT BEST, the team's 4th D-man on the depth chart. And, with Sanguinetti and Sauer in Hartford, and the drafting of Del Zotto, I thought it was inevitable that a D-man was going to be dealt. To turn the 4th D-man on the team for a player with the talent to become a quality 1st line forward is just remarkable.

Sean Avery Press Conference

http://stars.nhl.com/

We interrupt the hockey chat for an important announcement:

Favre's a Jet!

Angry

Now why in the world would Favre want to play for a defunt Winnipeg hockey team.

Kovazub

OOPS see what happens when you use Garth Snow as your spell checker?

Jas

It is not a matter of how Tyutin played but the constant trashing by the "expert" hockey media about what the Rangers do or do not do.

Can you honestly remember when the Rangers were not blamed for something that went wrong in the hockey world even if the Rangers were not to blame?

Even more entertaining is how the NHL is celebrating the anniversary of the Gretzky trade to the LA Kings.

If there was any one move that led to NHL salaries growing out of control then trace it back to TGO and the contract that was given him by the Kings.

But yet is always more fun to blame the Rangers as they made their fair share of mistakes

Are the Rangers for sale?

http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/

Jess,

Unless oversized pads are back, GS is good for NOTHING worthy (implied fishsticks reference).

Just wait folks, Garth Snow will name himself Head Coach/GM and then suit up as backup for Dipi!

Kov, RB

A double LOL no kidding to both of you.

Blaze

It seems now that we get this annually now that the Dolans are going to sell the Rangers.

As much as we would love to see that happening, I for one do not think it will unless the Dolans will also sell Cablevision itself.

The Garden and the toys that come with it as the Dolan's most prized toys.

It is perhaps their best money maker considering how many different ways they can make money off the Garden but there is a more important reason why they are not selling.

Owning the Garden gets the Dolans more notice than even owning Cablevision, they get to own a prime piece of real estate in mid-town Manhattan that alone is worth at least a billion.

IF the Dolans are going to sell anything it will be their cable channels as they can be sold with less hassles and fetch a very good price too

check out the short avery video at: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/

sean takes a parting slap at the rangers. nice job sean. rangers help make you big bucks and most you could do is stir it up with some petty remarks. i guess it's above him to offer thanks and well wishes. all part of the 'bad boy' persona i guess.

also, the non-password bb posting today was excellent, still good to hear jagr news.

i am still confused with blueshirt bulletin, i haven't been keeping up with the bb and bb+ developments...will bb remain open and updated but no comments allowed? so we'll have to read both sites but have to log on to bb+ to post any comments??

thanks for the info.

Look, Avery said he went to Dallas because they are a winning team. Well, he went for MONEY. No more, no less. Now we'll get to see just how much of a "teammate" he will be. I'm sure he feels his days in this league are numbered, so he needs to get as much as he can now.

We Need a BB radio show for all of our fans. Any chance of a talkshoe outlet or on Am would be sick.

RB

Sure Avery left for the money, as did Jagr and why Redden and Rosy signed with the Rangers. Despite what everyone says in 95% of the cases it is money that decides who signs where.

You know I was never a fan of Avery or the trade that brought him here but I am bothered to see the Rangers via the Maven taking pot shots at Avery AFTER he has left. Why not say something while he was still a Ranger?

Avery kept quiet until his intro to the Dallas folks so I for one would not blame him for taking shots at the Rangers.

If anything given being called a problem like he was that Avery tempered his remarks.

Other than the Malik fight, nobody has ever reported that Avery was a bad teammate as a Ranger.

Given the way the NYC media is then had Avery done anything out of line as a teammate we would have heard about it before it was over.

Capmess

A BB talk radio show??? That sounds scary LOL

You know Jess ... let him take shots at management then ... Avery is just being Avery ... IMO ... not only was he taking shots at the team but the city as well, a city he supposedly claims to love so whatever ... he is doing it for the reason he always does stuff, to get attention ...

Like I said when he took the money and left for Dallas ... he left, he wanted the money and Dallas paid up and I am 100% OK with him doing that ... my problem was that he was a hypocrite, talking BS about bleeding Ranger blue and all this crap ... he was going to go to the highest bidder and anyone who thought differently was only lying to themselves ... so I would've respected him more had he said that .. "I'll go where the money is" and that's that ...

He has a lot of nerve to say that had Dallas had him in the lineup they would've beaten Detroit when he has disappeared, two years in a row, in the 2nd round of the playoffs and at certain times during the regular season ... yeah he got hurt vs PIT but he wasn't having the same impact vs the Penguins as he did vs the Devils because like the Sabres in 2007 the 2008 Penguins were ignoring him and when teams can ignore him he turns into just another player, albeit one with a much dirtier mouth than most

My "numbers" came direct from the hockey news.

Jess Jagr signed for 5 mills per

In todays President Cup tournament game, the former NYR captain & now Avangard Omsk winger Jaromir Jagr scored a goal & assist for Avangard Omsk against Moscow's Spartacus. Spartacus won 3:2.

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