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August 14, 2008

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i'll be happy to start this thread off on a positive note, somewhat.
even though we obviously overpaid for this guy on a one year basis, it's only one year. and if he's injured as much as people say he is, it'll be a chance for a rookie to step up and get a lot of ice time. think silver lining, people.

He'll make us wish for Quintal, Malik, Ozilinch (however its spelled) and Rachunek.

Add Poti to that list

Thanks for trying to keep it positive, Amos. After I read this piece, I started wondering if the next print BB will have a charticle about how much turnover there's been since May. I'd completely FORGOTTEN about Kalinin.

Last night, MSG ran a bunch of their "Ranger Fans Favorites" shows. During the episode dedicated to this season, as I watched the highlights I was thinking "Gone to Omsk, gone home, gone fishing, traded, headed west, left dangling, gone home, traded...." (#s 68, 82, 8, 51, 16, 14, 34, 44.)

A LOT of new faces and talents and tendencies and baggage. Can they get along? Can they get use travel as aspic and gel quickly? Can they pocket some Ws in October?

Stayed tuned for the answers to these and many other questions during the premiere of "As the Puck Drops." Coming in September. Check your local listings.

Since they picked up Rachunek and Mottau, shouldn't the debbies be close to signing Malik? AND Ozolnish?

I try and stay positive when thinking about our beloved blueshirts, but I am getting worried here. We now have 2 players who may have a bad case of rabbit ears, which will be problematic considering the vocal nature of the faithful.

I look at this signing as basically a stop gap measure.

Yes this guy has all the signs of being Malik Part 2 but the way I am looking at things is that when Sanguinetti is ready here is the body they can dump all the way to Russia and not take a cap hit.

To NJ from the last thread

I did read it and thought it was a spoon fed "feel good" report from the Rangers.

I mean it is great that for a change we are seeing the words Prospects and Rangers used together BUT even I know those same prospects need work in key areas.

My worry is that people will see that article and think that all of those kids are fast tracked to the NHL.

For example, Sauer who is one of my personal favorites is coming off an ACL. Last year he struggled at times so this injury is going to set him back but how much will that be?

Dubi thanks for that uplifting & optimistic report . This guy sounds like the 'real deal' ;-)

Well, I looked at Naslund and saw the possibility of a revival, and I looked at Redden and saw upside there too. Zherdev still has plenty of room to reach his potential. Voros was maybe a bit of a reach, but I could picture a scenario where he comes through.

But Kalinin -- I went into this thinking that he got an unfair rap in Buffalo, but once I took a closer look, the resemblance to Malik is really uncanny, and injury-prone to boot. I couldn't find anyone who could paint a rosy picture of this guy -- not even the people who like him and are trying to defend him.

Here's a case where we see what Renney can do -- lots of people malign Renney, Rozsival, and of course Malik, but the truth is that Renney found a way to get more out of first pairing of Rozsival and Malik than anyone ever expected. Maybe it was Jagr who was responsible for it, not Renney. We'll see.

And like Jess says, if the guy really can't cut it, there will be no shortage of young guys ready to take his place.

But there seems to be a shortage of D men at both levels of the NYR.

What's the worst that can happen? It's a one year deal, and he won't be expected to start the season with top line minutes. We have a coaching staff that is proficient at defensive schemes and minimizing mistakes, and a very solid top 5. My guess is he starts off on the 3rd pair, maybe with Girardi, and they let him play himself up the ladder. Kalinin strikes me as one of those players that had huge fan expectations placed on him after the lock-out, and when the injuries started to mount he pressed more. To compare him to Malik is a bit unfair, I think, he's a better skater and scorer than Malik ever was.

I do agree that of all the reclamation projects we have, this is by far the longest shot.

Just to switch gears for a second, USA Today is reporting that the Rangers will kick off the Versus NHL coverage with our October 5 game in Prague at 12 noon. Great, first we have to start our season in Europe and now it has to be telecast on Versus. At least Jimmy-Boy Dolan will be happy because he can save a few fischnagels by bot having to send the full broadcast team.

And before we condemn Kalinin to Sheldon Kannegeiser status, could we let him play a few games before we give him the Malik treatment.

Anthony

I disagree with you about Jimmy D being happy about not sending a crew to Europe.

It goes to his marketing of the Rangers complaint as every time the Rangers appear on VS or NBC then they lose out on revenue.

Junior can not sell tickets, advertise for other MSG events etc if the game is on VS.

Junior also knows that none of us would watch VS if we knew the game was on MSG

Actaully, I was going more for a sarcastic dig at the Dolans. I should have used a smiley :-) Darn intanet!

Actually, the NYR season opener in Prague WILL be on MSG, so Lil Jimmy's gotta pay! Their game TWO on Sunday will be the VS. NHL season opener, not MSG's. I read that in a reputable place.... Sam's blog, I think.

I just returned from a week in the Canadian Rockies, and it was great to talk hockey with the natives, instead of recipes for grits and hush puppies in SC.

I didn't realize Kalinin was another big guy who plays soft. Nothing frustrates me more than that combination. I guess Sather thought he had the second greatest outlet pass of available defensemen.I hope this doesn't turn into another Allan Stanley, Backman, or Malik situation.We were wrong about Stanley, who won several cups of the same name with the Leafs in the 60's.Hopefully we are wrong about Kalinin.

I agree with the sentiment of let's give the guy a chance. The worst case scenario is that he can only hurt us for one year.

Anthony M

Next time wear the clown suit when posting so we will know you are joking. It helps us see the humor

Ice

And what is wrong with hush puppies kind sir?

That is the stuff that hillybillys are made up

I agree with ice about hating that cimbination, but I am also willing to give kalinin a chance. I quite honestly still like what I have read about denisov a lot. If Kalinin does not work out I would like to see denisov in his spot (I would actually like to see it to start with).

As always great work Dubi (Jess and the rest)!!

Ice and Wicky, there are other ways to use a big body than to be "physical" in a tough guy way. I know that's "European" but done well such players provide great reach without risking getting out of position for a big hit.

G

Godot,

I agree with your last post. My point simply is that we do not have a big banger on the blue line and have needed one for sometime, but for whatever reason never seem to sign or trade for one. If we had a big positionally sound d man that did not hit as well as a banger that is fine Im all for it, but all we seem to come up with is these big players that do not hit (malik, backman, popovic to name a few) and opposing forwards are in the crease and do not get punished. I am not saying we need 6 buekes on the blueline, but one player in that mold would go a long way on this team. The positionally sound "non-hitter" d man line up just has not seemed to work out very well and I think it is time that management makes a bruising d man its priority.

Oh and btw, I have no problem with "European" d men as my 2 all time favorites on the blue line are ulfie and vlad the impailer.

Dubi- I was wondering if the plan is to put a duplicate (or more in depth) posting on BB+ that mirrors the main site? The only reason I ask is that it might make for some good discussions, or at least put comments in perspective. I understand the plan of the main site being the news and this site being for commentary and discussions? For instance, the Avery post on the main site (or in the future with training camp updates), one can't comment on the main site, so you would have to post on this thread which is completely unrelated. I know you are still ironing things out, but I figured i'd ask! Keep up the great work.

Say hello to Uncle Larry:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08172008/sports/rangers/sundin_itchin_to_lace_em_up_on_broadway_124830.htm

Hey Jess, I can't wear the clown suit - it is on permanent loan to Charles Wang and the boys on Long Island. :-)

What could the Rangers get if they actually decided to move Rosy? I can't see it being worth the move.

Did anybody read the piece in the Hockey News by Rory Boylen regarding the Rangers underachieving this season? First, let me make it clear that I don't know where the Rangers will end up, but his piece needs some comment. He claims the old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Then he states that Lundqvist can pull us out, but it will take a drive in April to make the playoffs. Well, I guess this guy never watched Rangers games. It WAS broke! Jagr was way off his game, a number of youngsters were in key positions, Straka was short of his potential, Shanahan was a shell of himself and the PP was more a Power Nap then anything else. AND, it took an April drive to clinch a playoff spot. In fact, it took two years of an April drives to make the playoffs the past two years. He claims that last years team was just short of a conference championship. Well, maybe so this season, but what about the next 2-8 years? Where would last years team be in 4 years? IT WAS BROKE, with respect to current and future planning and that's the bottom line. Maybe he gives away his real intention in his opening remarks. He wrote that he didn't like what the Rangers did in the off-season. So he is frustrated that the Rangers decided to change the face of the team now and, somehow, that will result in underachievement. I don't see either under or over-achievement this season. We have a new club, in transition. Nobody can tell me what to expect from the bunch we have until 1) we know what bunch will suit up 2) what they show us in pre-season 3) what the first 10-15 games actually play out in terms of solid offense/defense and finally the coaching staffs adjustments to this new bunch. I guess Boylen needed to write a piece on the Rangers. Unfortunatly for him he picked a team that he knows little about.

The only way Mats comes to NY is if we unload Rosy and Prucha. so Slats is probably working on that right now.

Re: Sundin to the Rangers

Please, please, make it stop!

Maybe Mats S. can take next season off to think about it? So the Rangers don't turn themselves inside-out over him?

The thing that gets me about this--the Rangers aren't denying it. They haven't said anything at all against the rumors. I think if they had no interest, they would have said so by now. :worries: The idea of signing Sundin bothers me because it seems this team will have to turn itself inside-out to get him. And they've just done that with free agent signings/releases. How do they hope to find stability? The Wheel of Ranger Fortune goes round and round.

rangerbill94

Great post! I read that piece and I totally agree with you.

Rangerbill

I did respond at Prospect Park in my last entry in which I called Get Real. It was a joke that this bozo is getting away with this kind of crap

Anthony

Those are not clown outfits they are wearing on Long Island, it is where SpongeBob Squarepants and gang went to work.

Oh and speaking of the fish, rumor has it that one of the girls who works as an Islander Ice Girl is actually a Ranger fan according to her mother

Lisa

If the Rangers are not interested in Sundin then it remains in their best interest to not say a word. Let the other teams think the Rangers are interested in Sundin so they use up their salary cap space.

As for the Brooks story, Sundin's agent did not waste any time denying his story today.

I dunno, Jess. You know the old saying, "Where there's smoke, there's fire."

I won't rest easy until this guy (Sundin) either retires, or signs with another team.

this is from tsn.ca

The newspaper article says well-connected sources have stated that Sundin has expressed his interest in playing for the Blueshirts. The Post report went on to say that Sundin's agent, J.P. Barry has been in constant communication with front-office personnel from the Rangers.

When contacted by TSN, Barry denied there have been any increased discussions with the Rangers. He told TSN that he has spoken to both the Rangers and Philadelphia Flyers but also has had long discussions with Maple Leafs general manager Cliff Fletcher and Vancouver Canucks general manager Mike Gillis. Barry said there are six teams interested in Sundin's services for next season.

I won't rest easy till Mats Sundin IS a Ranger. I said he'd be a Ranger and I think it's going to happen and believe me we won't regret it.

I have said it from the beginning Sundin will be a Ranger.

He wont be youll see hes going to go to Van or Philly.Sather will be an idiot to trade players just to sign him for 1 season.

One more thing, Jess:

An agent's denial counts for nothing. In fact, it's more like an admission.

What I have yet to see from those wanting to see Sundin is how this helps the Rangers both now and tomorrow?

Laurie over at Zipay's place made a great argument while the move makes zero sense.

Adding a Sundin besides choking the Rangers to the cap limit also means that younger players are pushed back down the depth chart.

Right now the goal should be pushing them UP the chart as they are the team now and tomorrow.

You sign Sundin in addition to having to sell off assets to pay for him also means that if you need to make more moves during the season you do not have the tools to work with.

And you know what else royally says that Sundin is not worth it?

That after all this time that he is no closer to signing with anyone than he was on July 1.

Pick a team already Sundin and sign with them already as this is getting lamer with each passing day.

Sundin just might wait until game 40 or so to see which team has a better shot before signing. Sather might need to sign a marquee name, Sundin or Shanahan fit that bill.

Jess-- Signing Sundin gives us a highly competitive team and three solid lines. The guys getting in the way of youth are the drecky 4th liners signed by The Genius like Voros, Rissmiller, Orr etc. Let's reshape that 4th line to include young legs like Anisimov and Byers.

All this Sundin stuff! Sundin=Messier? How 'bout we sign Favre, he's a great leader, plenty of experience and he can learn quickly? Last season we had Jagr, Straka & Shanahan, so now Sundin will replace all three of those guys? Here comes the Cup, I can just feel it. Why not trade Drury and add Sundin, that gives us more cap space? Maybe we can get another cheap, young, up and coming youngster for Drury. In fact, now that I think about it, we should just re-build the entire team around Sundin! Heck, he plays like he's 29 years old, no telling how long he can continue to be productive. Sundin spells DYNASTY! Oh, what the heck, Bettman will kill the deal somehow, can't let the Rangers win the cup for 4 years in a row! Such is wishful thinking, eh?

Just curious here, but why is everyone so determined to not have orr in the line up on a regular basis? I think he is being seriously undervalued here.

Thanks

RB you'd have to ask the gm those questions, he's the one that makes those decisions . His boss is known to like big names aka star attraction.

i

Sarcasm my friend, just my sarcastic mind playing games outloud. But if somebody took my post serious, then I'm sorry.

This has nothing to do with Sundins "name." He is still a fantastic hockey player and if he is willing to sign here for less money over the short term, we absolutely should be exploring the possibility.

Again, we have a one or two-year gap before guys like Cherapanov and Anisimov (and maybe Grachev) are ready and players like Dawes and Callahan are ready for top roles. In the meantime, we'll get Naslund and maybe Sundin.

One thing in which I can't believe Brooks is right. No way can the team even be thinking about trading Rozsival. He's being counted on to play 22-24 minutes a night on D. If we signed Sundin and traded Roszival, we would have to add a cheap defenseman to pick up those minutes. That would be a disaster, even if Sundin plays well. We already are thin on defense and overloaded at forward.

No, if we sign Sundin, we'd have to cut salaries such as Prucha and some of the other second-tier forwards. That would work with an incentive-laden contract.

Jess, et. al.,
Larry Brooks said that the Rangers would need to get rid of Rozival to accommodate Sundin's salary needs. That doesn't seem like the right move to me. Rozi is a good 3rd or 4th d-man and they don't come cheap. So, what are some other salary shedding moves they could make?

Perhaps dealing Prucha? His kind of scoring touch is hard to find, but he hasn't learned to avoid or absorb big hits (a video medley of Prucha getting popped over and over would be a youtube hit) and he is small. It's only a matter of time before he starts racking up extended injury time. Would you be surprised if he started having concussion problems? I say trade him now while he has value and(as Bones said) Voros, Rissmiller or Orr to free up some duckets for Big Bald Mats.

As Brooks points out, a first line of Mats with Naslund and Zherdev; a second with Gomer, Dru and whoever earns it is a very solid first and second line combo. If those exact combos don't work, it gives Renney another high quality piece with which to work. Plus, Mats Sundin is going to be a solid citizen. He'll only help in the dressing room. I see little risk and high reward potential in bringing him in. The question is how?

I say get rid of these (potentially overpaid) 3rd and 4th liners to get a guy who scored 30 goals last year on one of the worst teams in the league. That would also open up room for our younger guys (Korpikoski, Moore, Anisimov) to get some NHL expereince on the 3rd and 4th lines. We all want to see them develop and we'll never know what they've got until they get some time in the bigs.

Paulf,
I agree with you 100%. Let's just hope Slats is as smart as we are. (smile)

I just copied this from BB on July 17. I know it may not be exactly up to date, but (for those who are interested in the exercise) this will help us figure out who could be moved to make room for Sundin.

Brooks figured Sundin should make around $5-$7 million next year and we have $2 million in cap space right now. So where would the other $3-$5 mil. come from?

Gomez @ $7,357,143; Drury @ $7,050,000;
Lundqvist @ $6,875,000; Redden @ $6,500,000;
Rozsival @ $5,000,000; Naslund @ $4,000,000;
Zherdev @ $2,500,000; Kalinin @ $2,100,000;
Mara @ $1,950,000; Prucha @ $1,600,000;
Girardi @ $1,550,000; Voros @ $1,000,000;
Rissmiller @ $1,000,000; Fritsche @ $875,000;
Staal @ $826,667; Valiquette @ $725,000;
Pock @ $667,500; Sjostrom @ $650,000;
Dubinsky @ $633,333; Betts @ $615,000;
Dawes @ $587,500; Callahan @ $575,000;
Orr @ $537,500.

If you take out Prucha, Pock and Voros that's $3,267,500. Or how about some combination of them and Mara? $1,950,000 for Mara seems like a lot. I like him, but if somethings got to go...

You know what makes no sense? People come on here and rail against signing Sundin, yet many on this site would gladly have taken JJ back at roughly Sundin's projected salary. At this stage of their careers I believe Sundin is a better player than JJ and without all the negs Jagr brings, ie can't seem to play with either Gomer or Dru, needs the puck all the time, had to pace himself to get through the season etc. Saying Sundin is Messier is ridiculous but he is an articulate team oriented leader who brings a lot to the table. And that's coming from a guy who regularly dissed Sundin for many years in the past.

I agree with Lisa. Stop the insanity!

If Slat and Sundin are serious dance partners, they should have worked out their deal a long time ago.

The spectacle of Slats dismantling a team he just put together by trading off a bunch of 3rd-4th liners he just signed as FAs would certainly make him look like an idiot. Maybe he's comfortable with the image that would result -- of a guy who looks like he's letting a prospective player lead him around by the you-know-whats. But I suspect not.

If he's not going to trade off this summer's signees, then he's got to let go of D-men or young players like Callahan, Dawes, Prucha. Which would make me very crabby.

And as a Ranger diehard, I sure would resent this fellow who treated such Ranger heroes as Graves and Leetch like garbage now deciding to twist his team into a pretzel so he can sign Sundin -- this Hamlet who is taking his sweet time to decide where he wants to play.

Feh! Stick with the plan. There must be one, right? Let us pray.

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