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February 27, 2009

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REPOST: Want to be sure Jess sees this.

Thanks for the little tutorial, Jess. Forgot about the switch from Maloney to Clark. Glad you seem to think it bodes well. I loved Donnie as a player but as GM/Asst GM? Not so much.

Man, I was pissed as hell about the rangers not claiming vaananen from the flyers, then I realized vancouver was below us in the standing by 2 points, 2 points....aaarrrrgggghhh!!!

Of course, on the plus side, those 2 points are what has us in the playoffs as of today!

i really don't know what any of you were watching these last two games. we played a more uptempo game for two periods against one of the worst teams in the league, played our usual horrid third, lose in a SO as the coach has no clue who to play in the SO.

then we come home the next night and play the same game that renney got out of this team many nights, hank gives up his one obligatory bad goal, and, gee, we lose again. the same players suck as much now as they did before, with maybe the odd exception of redden, and right now there is no one i would miss if they were traded, with the exception of betts, staal and mara. i guess i'm answering my own question from the other day: i do want to see this team taken apart and let the new guy start fresh next season.

torts has been doing a fairly good impression of renney these past two games by not saying anything really bad about this really bad team. and i know it would look ridiculous if he started ranting and raving after game two, and i don't know about the rest of you, but that's exactly what i want to see from our coach.

you might think i'm crazy, many people do, but if we got kovy from atlanta and they wanted, let's say, hank for starters and we got lehtonen back, i would do it in a heartbeat. we need to build around someone who can score consistently. this roster has no one who can do that. and hopefully grachev will be that guy secondarily.

and why not bring up parenteau and anisimov and let them try to replicate what they've been doing all year up in hartford? they have scored there all year against some nhl goalies who were back with their ahl teams.

Alan

You may have stirred up a hornets nest suggesting the trading of hank. I do think hank has had an off year, and with the system that torts "says" he wants to instill being a high risk, high reward system that gives up a lot of odd man rushes, we are going to find out just how good hank really is. I would keep hank personally, but you never know.

As far as who to keep, dubi, cally, korpi, the chernobyl line (that's what my wife calls betts, sjo, and orr after Dubi posted they could survive a nuclear war or something), mara, reitz (lack of banging option), staal, girardi, vali, hank, and Z. The rest could go bye bye as far as I'm concerned.

I think we are stuck with gomer and dru (I really do not have a problem with those two overall, sather just overpaid for their point production) nazzy and rozy are moveable I believe, redden may just find a way to hartford, the rest are just parts and HIGHLY moveable in my opinion.

I am absolutely floored by some of the comments this season. People just want to watch a "fun" game? WTF?!? So, if the Rangers playing a boring game nets them a Stanley Cup, or two or three like the Devils...what, you would be pissed off b/c it's not fun to watch? I think this pisses me off even more than the utterly stupid trades that people post. All I want is for the Rangers to win so I don't have to hang my head in shame when I talk with my Devils friends. I could give a rats ass how they win as long as they win.

XM radio this morning stated that a Gomez/Dubinski/Staal for Lecavalier trade was seriously discussed. Does anyone like this trade? Personally I think Staal/Dubi will be around a long time here in N.Y. Z

>> I could give a rats ass how they win as long as they win. <<

I tell you what, they were playing a boring game and they were losing, that's why the fans are upset. It's also why many of us, me included, are happy to see them attempt to play a more interesting style to watch. That is a step in the right direction. Now we'd like them to start winning too. I for one was just tired of watching them lose and be the cure for insomnia at the same time.

trading Staal would be a recipe for many many years of disaster..

how do you trade a 22 year old stud D man for a 28 yr old forward???

NO friggin way. Staal is the best defensive d man in the east today, at 22......................

he has like a 10 year contract rangers dont need that.

I think Vinny has about 9 yrs left on his deal..

the rangers should get him so these people that love miseryt can boo him for the last 4 or 5 yrs...


they complain the rangers historically do not have patience to grow there own players but complain when they do not get overpaid olders guys but then complain about the big 4; gomez, drury, redden, and roszi..

Gravey

Actually there are 3 people who you should thank as they taught me in about 5 hours more about scouting and development than anyone else ever has.

The first was Tom Renney who in 2005 spent over an hour talking to me about the Ranger prospects and taught me what to look at and for in Ranger prospects.

The second was E. J. McGuire who runs the NHL CSB, EJ taught the little things about scouting (mainly to how insane that life was) and how to listen to the kids.

Third was Gord Clark who I learned about development and why things work the way they do.

I also have been lucky enough to sit down and talk with some awesome people who scout every day. My favorite was Tom McVie who used to coach in the NHL, he taught me that about how to read a prospect's heart which to be honest is one of the most important ways to gauge a prospect's potential.

He taught me to look beyond the stats and to look for the desire as a means of who would become an NHL player.


Alan

The key to Tortorella turning the Rangers into a winner would be having a top level goalie.

Defense is what wins cups not scoring a ton because if you can not stop the other guy from scoring but they can stop you then you lose.

You want to move Hank for a goalie who can not stay healthy, who finds himself playing his way out of his job at least 1-2 times a season.

Sorry but you are making the mother of mistakes here

Z-
I agree. Gomez can go. Staal and Dubi can't. I wouldn't even CONSIDER making that trade.

Jess, again, thanks for the scouting dialogue. So to go back to a question I asked at the beginning, is our draft record as poor as it sometimes feels, relative to other teams?

I started this whole conversation with the thought -- for the first time in my life, really --that maybe trading away our first rounders for known quantities is not necessarily a bad thing to do. On principal and by inclination, I always want to keep picks and watch young kids develop, in the hopes of being able to root for home grown (a real mismatch of sensibilities when one roots for NY teams).

But for the first time, I'm thinking about how that has really panned out for the Rangers. Not so good, I'm thinkin'. Am I right or does it only just feel that way, just like for every other fan of every other team?

I'll tell you what, for that Vinny trade, we wouldn't be getting a player past his prime, we'd be getting an absolute stud. If we can find a way to get Vinny for Gomer, Sags or DelZotto and a top young forward other than Dubi, Dawes, Cally, I'd do it in a heart beat. If Staal has to be involved we simply can't make the trade. Vinny has plenty of game left, is the big center we are lacking and it would give a huge boost to our team. I hope Sather is thinking big...Also, dont forget to differentiate between us trading for Keith Tkachuck who is 37 and past his prime or Vinny who is in his prime with plenty of time left.

We have some good young players playing for this team now. 2 on d with Staal and Girardi, a bunch up front with Korpo, Dawes, Cally, Dubi, Z, Prucha...It's about time we used our system to acquire top talent without going too crazy. My hope is that we play another tight game, 1-1, 1-0 in the 3rd period and Sather has no choice but to make a big move for a goal scorer.

For certain, Lundqvist, Staal, and Dubinsky are off the table. I'd also put Korpikoski in that group. Next are Callahan, Dawes, Girardi, and Betts. I'd only trade these guys as a last resort. Third level contains pretty much everybody else, though I'd have to think about Zherdev long and hard. I believe Z has great potential and value and, under the right tutelage, he can become a big-time NHL star.

That being said, I have to say I still like Drury and Gomez and would hate to see them go. I believe Renney when he said they are 25 goals a year. That is who they are. Sather thought otherwise. That's on him. Under Tortorella, though it's only been two games, the Dynamic Duo already look like they have more jump and passion. I'd like nothing better than for those two to get going. I think that's where Renney let them down. He never benched them for even the most glaring mistakes. Gomez/Drury are on notice (as is everyone else) and the team already looks like it has more jump.

Maybe, Jess, you're right, and I really don't know who in the entire league I'd want to protect the net in a high risk/reward offense, but everyone seems to know Henrik can't handle that high glove side shot. If he doesn't somehow work on his game to cure that deficiency, that in itself doesn't bode well, regardless of the type of game we play.

As far as Vinny, I think we'd regret that no matter who we gave up. His goal scoring has dropped drastically since he scored 50 two years ago and I hope we've at least learned a lesson that once that starts to drop, it ain't comin' back.

I would not under any circumstance include DZ or Grachev in any trade, and Sangs if traded needs to fetch something equal potential-wise, whatever that potential might be. Same with AA.

Can anyone remind me of the date a player needs to be on the roster to qualify for the playoffs? Is it the same as the trade deadline date?

Another question: How if at all does Sean help the team at this stage of the season and/or in the future? Although his success in a Ranger and now Wolfpack jersey, other players aside, is extremely convincing on why he should be a NYR. He and the Pack are on a five game winning streak. Jeez, we wouldn't be talking about any of this if we managed to win five games in a row, eh?

No way I trade Dubinski or Staal at this point. I don't let Grachev go anywhere either. Vinny is good, and Gomer can go, but you'd have to package it differently.

You have Gomer, Naslund, Rozy, Reitz, Voros, an AHL 'offensive' defensmen, 1st round pick next draft, 2nd round pick draft after that. Alot of guys are 'expendable' that don't gut this team. Substitute Z for 2 of the above except Gomer if someone will take him. I personally hope the kid turns around, but I don't see it coming. He's got Kovalev written all over him. Maybe if we send him home for a few games.

Of course Tampa would be crazy to accept any of the above, even all of it, because Vinny's better. His scoring drop can be attributed to the lack of supporting cast he enjoyed not so many moons ago. Teams are able to concentrate on the one line and shut it down. In the end, you're just going to have to give up too much to get him, and while he's 'in his prime' now, by the end of his contract it'll be a different story, especially in an up tempo Tortorella world. You honestly think he'll be able to skate like he does now at 36, 37? The last thing I want to see is another Gretzky or Messier walking up the boards as the game goes by.

I'd rather trade for a defensemen, it's our weakest point, especially in a system that leaves them exposed. Getting some size and ability back there would help alot. We need a guy who can take the body, who can move and play 25-30 minutes including PP time. Some dependable, not expendable.

Next year, there's young guys that will come up that will fit with this system, along with a few D that may be ready, or close to ready. Torts strikes me as a guy who would want to have them up and playing and wouldn't be uncomfortable with a couple 'new' guys. Makes it a ton easier to teach them the system.

The rest of this season is going to be tough. I'd rather they suck it up, play their best and go next year than trade away somebody worth something just to make the first round playoff exit.

T

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